Racing or Timing

Discussions on race planning, preparations and how to run a "fair" and fun race.
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Big Ron
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Racing or Timing

Post by Big Ron » Wed Nov 30, 2005 5:22 pm

Our old system was double eliminations in the packs and for the districts.
New system is double elimination in the packs with the fastest cars going to the districts them for the districts you will only get a pass in the right lane and then one in the left with your best time your finishing position. Is this fair to the boys? The pack running the districts get to use the track in January to there pack race to pratice{track set up in a leaders house for there use} Not avabalable to anyone else. They sited two many problems with the double eleminations with complaints. There new system favors there Pack only. Also they stated last year the fastest cars didnt win. When the fastest knocks out the 2 or 3rd fastest from there pack due to the double eliminations they felt that wasnt fair This is not racing and I and a few others feel this is not fair to the kids who cant pratice on an aluminun track with a timer and get to tune there cars. Who can I call to get someone to listen and help us Dont say go to the Council because I did and they dont want to hear about it. Said that it would be the easiest way to do things.



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Da Graphite Kid
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Re: Racing or Timing

Post by Da Graphite Kid » Wed Nov 30, 2005 5:58 pm

Big Ron,

I can definately feel your pain on this one. It isn't fair to allow any one group access to the track that everyone has to race on while excluding others. You can try going to your Unit Commissioner, than District Key 3 (District Chairman, District Commissioner and District Executive) but I have found that the most effective way to make changes is to offer to run the District Pinewood Derby yourself. If your Pack has a track (or if you do) ask the Key 3 about rotating who will host the race each year. You will find that once someone has a fair race that other leaders will start demanding the same from wkomever runs the District Race the next year.

Da Graphite Kid
Creek District Pinewood Derby Chairman 2006



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Stan Pope
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Re: Racing or Timing

Post by Stan Pope » Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:03 pm

Cub Scout activities are (mostly) run by volunteers within policy constraints provided by professional staff. The racing committee (district or council) is usually appointed by the Cub Scouting Program chairman (another volunteer). Details for this year's racing are probably already determined and distributed ... the event planning cycle is (or should be) 9 months or more. But if you have concerns and, especially, improvement suggestions the PWD committee chair needs to hear them. Written suggestions probably have a longer life-span than oral suggestions. If you are positive and helpful in your approach, you can probably get assignment to that committee so that your help can be even stronger.


Stan
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sporty
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Re: Racing or Timing

Post by sporty » Mon Dec 05, 2005 2:14 pm

I can understand that in any type of race held.

There is always issues that can come about, Fair or less than fair.

When you deal with a organization of volunteers. It seems hard to not find where things could be done better.

Yet, Most put alot of time and care into such events.

I would not find it to be a shock if in my area, the builders or holders of the track were doing something simuliar.

If I could afford to build and had space for tracks for the cubmobile and pine wood derby I would.


I can understand, Certainly -

I saw this past year at the Cubmobile race. When one of the leaders from the council was there.

They seemed much more stricter than the previous 2 years on the rules.

I believe the winner for best of show was his son.

We had participants from outside the area. I guess you can go to other packs and race.

But being my sons 3rd year, it was the first we had heard of it.

I sent a few e-mails back in october to some of the people incharge or involved.

Suggestioning a few things. I never even got a reply back. But I also didnt want to push the issue and create undo attention to my son.

I personally feel, that the cubmobile race, just like the pinewood derby should be in the group, and the winners onto local area competition.

Or have the people within ther eown pack race against one another 1st before racing other outside packs that day.

Having plus 60 people in one day event, with double elim. Makes for a very long day, with young kids sitting and waiting is very hard for them.


And I it would be nice if like the pinewoody derby race, that each group had best of show trophy.

I simply cant see a tiger scout being as good as a bear or wolf in building and painting.


Now they start this around noon, However in summer and 90 plus heat. I think a 9 or 10 am start would be much better on the kids.

I ended up during the race, while trying to watch a 4 year old and 9 year old. working down on the finish line.

I had a good time, helping out, but i was busy with trying to take care of the kids and when my son raced, I helped him and did not judge.


Its hard to find good people, volunteers to help and when you do. Since they may not have good ability in communication, planning or organization skills.

And yet, you dont want to upset them and loose that help.


So its a balance and sometimes frustrating.

I often wonder, knowing my local community and have a idea of the companys who donate. And the raffles and auctions.

I often wonder how much money is sent out to the council.

At our cubmobile event, the DJ donates his services, Area biz, buy the Trophys. Food is donated to be sold.

So you have all this free stuff coming in for the event and used. But I have always wondered where the funds go ?

I mean how does one go about asking to see the book work ?

I mean for example -

68 kids, $10 each to register for the event - $680

Trophys donated
dj donated
food donated for the event. my guess $100 made

All volunteer,

what happens with the $680, I could see the food funds going elsewhere

But when the kids pay for a specific event, Do they use the money to further a better event next year or do they combine those funds for other activities.

Most of the kids, pay dues, plus pay additional for exents. Cubmobile, Pine wood derby, So forth.

Couple years of ago, they made a tool box, All the wood donated and cut for free, Yet the kids paid to do the event.

So, If you have more donations and sponsors taking up the costs. WHat is done with the donations and money ?

We had somone build and donate the tree light for the cubmobile race to be used.

Someone built a new pinewood derby track and donated.

Its always good to have a plus in the bank. But It would also be nice to know where it all goes.

sporty



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Stan Pope
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Re: Racing or Timing

Post by Stan Pope » Mon Dec 05, 2005 7:59 pm

sporty wrote: So you have all this free stuff coming in for the event and used. But I have always wondered where the funds go ?

I mean how does one go about asking to see the book work ?

I mean for example -

68 kids, $10 each to register for the event - $680

Trophys donated
dj donated
food donated for the event. my guess $100 made

All volunteer,

what happens with the $680,
I've rolled this question around in my head for quite a few years, Sporty.

For scouting district and council events, the process goes something like this:
  • The event chairman and professional advisor makes out a budget, showing all of the costs to put on the event. Costs for items that might ultimately be donated are included here.

    The total is bumped by a percentage (contingency against lower turnout)

    The total is bumped by another percentage to cover the time that the professional will spend in support of the event.

    The total number of registrants is estimated, again by the chairman and advisor.

    Total event cost is divided by expeted number of registrants (and rounded) to get the registration cost.
From the participants point of view, value received matches up with value given, so he hasn't been "cheated."

Now, as part of his fund-raising job, the professional (and maybe the chairman) seek donations to the council (in kind or $) from potential "sponsors." (I think that it would affect the tax deductibility of donations if they were to offset the registration cost!)

This fund raising method used to be called "project sale". (Don't know if the term is still used.) The presentation was expressed in a way that the potential donor would conclude that the donation would be applied directly to the identified cost item. To me this has been an ethical gray area. I hope that it has been trimmed to "erase the gray."

In planning an annual event, my preference would be to exclude costs for budget items for which donations can be counted on year after year. To exclude the "covered by donation this year only" items leads to hard-to-explain fluctuations in the registration fees from year to year.

Sorry it isn't a satisfactory answer, but this is briefly how and why.


Stan
"If it's not for the boys, it's for the birds!"

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sporty
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Re: Racing or Timing

Post by sporty » Mon Dec 05, 2005 8:52 pm

No stan,


I certainly can understand the way that you exlained the process.

I did manage to speak to someone today and was under the impression from that conversation.

That alot of the overage actually has to go to regional or national council. That they are not allowed to keep very much extra funds around.

Does this sound about right ?

I was wanting to donate for a specific event for the kids, what I would like to donate is a couple hundred dollars worth of vinly lettering that I have made. I vinyl decal of 3 inch numbers and cobmobile decal.

However I want to be assured that the proceeds would go towards that event.

In our small town of around 16,000. To see 68 cubmobiles race and to notice almost everything was donated.

I was hoping that, hay maybe the kids that cant afford to build a cubmobile, then they would purchase or offer kits or something. Or even a local cubmobile t-shirt for the event.

With them having it be a regional event or alteast all these other apcks participating. Perhaps something like that could be done or allowed.

I guess, I would hate to donate and see most of the fund be sent to regional or national office.

I did call around and spoke with another person involved in scouts and had gone to some of the meatings and had asked some simuliar questions. The impression left with me, Is that they were not so forth coming with the answers.

meaning remains un answered.


Sporty



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Stan Pope
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Re: Racing or Timing

Post by Stan Pope » Tue Dec 06, 2005 12:21 am

I just realized that we got way off the thread subject ... maybe the moderator will move this to a new thread.

Council funds (donations, profits from operations, etc.) raised by the council (and its districts) stay with the council, except for its annual recharter fee to national council. Use of the funds includes facilities, staff salaries, and development programs (such as new programs for inner-city youth.)

Some council reciepts (e.g. youth and unit registration fees) "pass through" the council and are forwarded to national.


Stan
"If it's not for the boys, it's for the birds!"

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