District race open to the first 100 boys that sign up?

Discussions on race planning, preparations and how to run a "fair" and fun race.
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CuriousGeorge
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District race open to the first 100 boys that sign up?

Post by CuriousGeorge » Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:22 pm

Our pack is hosting the district race this year. Today, at our leaders meeting the Cubmaster tells us the district race is for the first 100 people that register (his idea). The registration information is going to be sent out via the District newsletter with a cut off date of sometime in late March. The fee and registration forms for the race are to be mailed in to our Council. I have my own opinion :roll: , but would like to hear what you guys think. I'll try and answer any questions as quickly as possible.


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Re: District race open to the first 100 boys that sign up?

Post by doct1010 » Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:50 pm

How large is the district? What numbers have you generated in past? Why not an all-comers if numbers are close to 100?

I don't like it. Too much left to chance of mail delivery. :P What if they receive 15 registrations all at same time and they are at 90, the person opening the mail decides who is in !! :shock: It stinks imo, might as well invite everyone.



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Re: District race open to the first 100 boys that sign up?

Post by PWD » Thu Feb 15, 2007 10:42 pm

I don't like it either. The key question is if it was open to everyone would you have 100 registrations or 1000.

Sounds to me like it is going to cause a lot of grief. If you can't take everyone then the top X from each pack would make more sense IMHO.



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Re: District race open to the first 100 boys that sign up?

Post by CuriousGeorge » Fri Feb 16, 2007 8:44 am

doct1010 wrote:How large is the district? What numbers have you generated in past? Why not an all-comers if numbers are close to 100?
Last year it was for the top 3 from each age division per pack, around 18 packs, with about 150 kids.


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Re: District race open to the first 100 boys that sign up?

Post by PWD » Fri Feb 16, 2007 8:49 am

Why change what you have done in the past? Seems like a fair way to do it. Unless you can open the race to more racers it does not seem to make sense to change.

What has been the reaction of the parents and kids on how you have done it in the past? Has there been complaints?

We do it almost exactly like you do. We take the top 2 for each age division. No one complains and everyone seems to agree with the approach.

I know Stan is always advocating opening up districts to everyone. I think if you live in a large district that is very, very difficult to do.



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Re: District race open to the first 100 boys that sign up?

Post by doct1010 » Fri Feb 16, 2007 8:54 am

CuriousGeorge wrote: Last year it was for the top 3 from each age division per pack, around 18 packs, with about 150 kids.
Imo, that makes it even worse! :P :P You have a precedent, you have good turnout why roll the dice like this? I can't think of a single reason to support this concept. Anyone? Is the intent to keep numbers down? If so there are far better ways to achieve this. Where is the reward and incentive for pack winners, how will this stimulate and maintain interest at that level? Boo hiss.



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Re: District race open to the first 100 boys that sign up?

Post by DerbyAddict » Fri Feb 16, 2007 9:09 am

PWD wrote:Why change what you have done in the past? Seems like a fair way to do it. Unless you can open the race to more racers it does not seem to make sense to change.
Absolutely agree. We invite all boys to the District race. The original idea really seems to be going backwards. The point is to make the program (Scouting) more exciting to retain more boys. Racin' cars is always exciting. Getting more boys involved, not less, should be the goal.

Not to mention, my son wants to go to District not so much for the trophies (although they are always nice) but to see how his work stacks up against the other boys in the District, ususally the best from the Packs, especially the ones that he knows from summer camp and other District events. Limiting the number of boys would limit the number of possible opponents.
doct1010 wrote:I can't think of a single reason to support this concept. Anyone?
None.


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Re: District race open to the first 100 boys that sign up?

Post by psycaz » Fri Feb 16, 2007 9:32 am

Using the 150 number, you end up shutting out at least 16 packs completely and part of another - and that's if only the top three cars register.

What happens if you get a ton of registrations from one or two large packs. They could take all 100 spots, then what. Its between those two packs per se?

Whoever came up with that idea needs to think about why they are holding a district race.

Got to remember the old adage: If it ain't broke, don't fix it!



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Re: District race open to the first 100 boys that sign up?

Post by tmbnorm » Fri Feb 16, 2007 9:43 am

These numbers are huge to me.

Our Pack only has about 30 boys.

Our district races are open to all who want to enter.

This year we had about 85 cars total. That was down from about 100 last year.



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Re: District race open to the first 100 boys that sign up?

Post by Go Bubba Go » Fri Feb 16, 2007 2:33 pm

CuriousGeorge wrote:Our pack is hosting the district race this year. Today, at our leaders meeting the Cubmaster tells us the district race is for the first 100 people that register (his idea). The registration information is going to be sent out via the District newsletter with a cut off date of sometime in late March. The fee and registration forms for the race are to be mailed in to our Council. I have my own opinion :roll: , but would like to hear what you guys think. I'll try and answer any questions as quickly as possible.
Note that I am somewhat hampered in evaluating the "effectiveness" of this idea in that I don't know what the Cubmaster is trying to accomplish with this change.

However, several previous posts on this subject have centered on the intent of invigorating local races and encouraging the greatest number of boys to participate at the District / Council level.

During these previous posts, the 2 extremes that have been discussed as ideas to avoid are the "All comers" race that removes any sense of accomplishment associated with qualifying for entry, and the "too restrictive" race that excludes participants that would otherwise like to participate.

Rather than avoiding the 2 negatives mentioned above, IMO the option that you describe actually combines the worst of the 2. The boys that do enter will only have succeeded in beating others to the mailbox (thus participating but with no real sense of achievement in doing so), and the boys that want to participate but can't because of the size limit will be still be excluded (and for no reason related to the performance of their car).

If I had done something like this, I would have ended up placing it in my "Ways I Outsmarted Myself" file. :wall:


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Re: District race open to the first 100 boys that sign up?

Post by Stan Pope » Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:04 pm

PWD wrote:I know Stan is always advocating opening up districts to everyone. I think if you live in a large district that is very, very difficult to do.
Is there another Stan? This one doesn't!!!!

This Stan advocates maxing out participation. This happens when registration is not open to everyone! Rather it happens when registration is somewhat selective, e.g. top 3 or 4 per grade per pack.


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Re: District race open to the first 100 boys that sign up?

Post by CuriousGeorge » Thu Feb 22, 2007 11:14 am

PWD wrote:Why change what you have done in the past?
I don't know. This is only the second district race, last year being the first. I explained how last years invitations were sent only to be shot down. Twice.
PWD wrote:What has been the reaction of the parents and kids on how you have done it in the past? Has there been complaints?
The only two complaints I heard of last years race was that there was only 1 overall trophy, no 2nd or 3rd overall (my complaint). And that it took to long (heard that one A LOT).
doct1010 wrote:Imo, that makes it even worse! :P :P You have a precedent, you have good turnout why roll the dice like this? I can't think of a single reason to support this concept. Anyone? Is the intent to keep numbers down?
The intent is to keep the number down to 100 kids. As for why roll the dice, I'm still not sure, I even suggested that we take the first place from each age division per pack and the top three overall (b/c top 3 could all be from one division). That would be a maximum of 7 per pack, with 18 packs that would be a maximum of 126 kids. And not all of them would sign up to race at $8.00 per kid (another story for another thread). At least that way we would have the fastest cars racing, not just whoever was lucky enough to get their entry opened first. I'll tell you one thing though, if my kids don't get in (1 3rd place in den, 2 first place in den, and a 1st and 2nd overall) I'm going to be :sick: :x !!
psycaz wrote:What happens if you get a ton of registrations from one or two large packs. They could take all 100 spots, then what.
I'll let you know how it goes, but I can assure you that it's not going to be pretty! I have a feeling that we are going to end up with a lot more than 100 kids..... one way or another....
Go Bubba Go wrote:If I had done something like this, I would have ended up placing it in my "Ways I Outsmarted Myself" file. :wall:
I like that, I'll have to remember that one. :lol:


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Re: District race open to the first 100 boys that sign up?

Post by Go Bubba Go » Thu Feb 22, 2007 11:51 am

CuriousGeorge wrote:...The only two complaints I heard of last years race was that there was only 1 overall trophy, no 2nd or 3rd overall (my complaint). And that it took too long (heard that one A LOT).

The intent is to keep the number down to 100 kids. As for why roll the dice, I'm still not sure...
Take a look at how the races are being run and try to figure out (if only for next year, this year sounds kind of "emotional" and "set in stone" at this point) if there isn't a way to run the same number of boys a lot faster. There are many other cures for "too long" (typically better prep by Staff and improved Scheduling methods) that don't involve just turning boys away.
CuriousGeorge wrote:...I'll tell you one thing though, if my kids don't get in (1 3rd place in den, 2 first place in den, and a 1st and 2nd overall) I'm going to be :sick: :x !!
Confirm that last year's form is acceptable and send (or hand) your forms in today.

If a new form needs to be made up for this year, volunteer to put it out for this year and let the first 3 (at least the first 2 given their 1st and 2nd overall place performance) off the printer be yours.

In other words, don't wait for the mail. Firmly (but politely) get your boys (esp. the top 2 finishers) at the front of the line. Best advice I can give you in a poor situation.


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Re: District race open to the first 100 boys that sign up?

Post by festiva91 » Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:22 pm

In our council, the top five from each pack race go to the district race. The top ten from each district race go to the council race.



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