Learning the different race types

[DerbyDoDo]

Hi,

Is there anywhere such as a site that explains how the different race types are run? This would include Standard, Lane Rotation, Single Elimination and Double Elimination.

I think I would know what lane rotation is - is this where each car runs once one each lane and you average every car's speed out of all the lanes run and have a 1st, 2nd, 3rd winner?

I would like to know how the others are run. When watching a race using double elimination, sometimes a car would run down the lane by itself which I assume to get a time from. I'm wanting to learn how to determine what cars run when, when a car is eliminated, etc. I'm sure this is available somewhere - just have not found it yet.

Thanks!!

[Darin McGrew]

Is there anywhere such as a site that explains how the different race types are run? This would include Standard, Lane Rotation, Single Elimination and Double Elimination.

Are you looking for more info than I've included in my Derby Race Methods article?

I think I would know what lane rotation is - is this where each car runs once one each lane and you average every car's speed out of all the lanes run and have a 1st, 2nd, 3rd winner?

We used to use lane rotation with points. I do not recommend this approach. Since you run against the same opponents over and over, the accuracy is poor.

This is less of an issue if you use lane rotation with time. If you're using time, the accuracy is unaffected by which other cars are on the track. But it's still more interesting for those watching the derby if cars race against different opponents.

When watching a race using double elimination, sometimes a car would run down the lane by itself which I assume to get a time from. I'm wanting to learn how to determine what cars run when, when a car is eliminated, etc.

Many double-elimination ladders schedule cars for byes in the early rounds. If you're concerned about cars with byes receiving an advantage because their lubrication can last longer if they have fewer trips down the track, then you can send them down the track unopposed when they have a bye.

[DerbyDoDo]

Thanks Darin! I just read through most of your site on the race methods trying to understand them which I do for the most part. I do have several questions but I'm just gonna ask a couple to begin with hoping the others may get answered after thinking about it all.

For the elimination methods, what happens when you have an odd number of cars and have one left? I assume if you were using software, to create the first set of races, it will randomly pick the cars. for example, if you have a 3 lane track, it will create sets of 3 cars to race to determine the winner and the other two cars will have one loss so far. What happens if you have 31 cars or 16 cars? There is one extra car. Does this car run by itself just to race and be advanced automatically?

My second question is for the winners and one loss cars, how is it determined who races against who in the next groups? I know the one-loss cars race against each other but how are they grouped? Does the software group them by speed or is that random?

I appreciate any help you can give!

[Darin McGrew]

Keep in mind that I've never run a derby using an elimination method...

For the elimination methods, what happens when you have an odd number of cars and have one left? I assume if you were using software, to create the first set of races, it will randomly pick the cars. for example, if you have a 3 lane track, it will create sets of 3 cars to race to determine the winner and the other two cars will have one loss so far. What happens if you have 31 cars or 16 cars? There is one extra car. Does this car run by itself just to race and be advanced automatically?

That depends on how the elimination system works. Some will run three cars per race for every race, and then give the leftover car a bye. Others will run the last four cars as two races of two cars, rather than as one race of three cars and another "race" of one car. It depends on how smart the person setting up the system was.

My second question is for the winners and one loss cars, how is it determined who races against who in the next groups? I know the one-loss cars race against each other but how are they grouped? Does the software group them by speed or is that random?

Again, it depends on the system you're using. A traditional double-elimination ladder will schedule the winner of the first race against the winner of the second race, and so on. Stan's no-chart n-tuple elimination system lets the kids decide who they're going to race against based on their order in the line waiting to stage their cars. Other systems randomly assign the schedule for the current round once the previous round is complete.

[Stan Pope]

Good summary, Darin!

Stan's no-chart n-tuple elimination system lets the kids decide who they're going to race against based on their order in the line waiting to stage their cars.

That order is only approximate in most applications of 'no chart'. In our district races, there is a 5 person draw for the three lanes in each heat. The "left-overs" draw in the next heat. A special circumstance if four left at the end of the line: They draw until 2 lanes are filled. Then Last two draw for lane in last heat. Thus it is possible (but very low probability) that the first person in line races against the last person in line!
Also, to prevent "gaming the system", the person responsible for organizing the line may follow a predetermined (but undisclosed) schedule for reversing the line or for "folding" the line.

For larger groups, the 3-lane / 5-draw ratio works well with NO BYES (until the group size is reduced to 1), and for a quintuple elim, 87.5% end the day with at least one first place finish in a contested heat.

[DerbyDoDo]

What exactly is a bye? I see what you mean on splitting up the cars so no one runs alone. But I'm sure there are times you still have to. If you have a 2-lane track and there are 3 cars left, you'll have to run 2 of them and the last car just runs by itself. So does that last car running by itself go into the no losses set of cars and not in the 1 loss list for elimination type races?

[Darin McGrew]

What exactly is a bye?

I found the definition "you advance to the next round in a tournament without playing an opponent", which matches what I understand a bye to be.

The classic case of a bye is when you use an elimination ladder, and the number of teams is not a power of 2 (i.e., 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, etc.). Usually, byes are added to the first round to bring the number of teams plus the number of byes to the next power of 2.

I see what you mean on splitting up the cars so no one runs alone. But I'm sure there are times you still have to. If you have a 2-lane track and there are 3 cars left, you'll have to run 2 of them and the last car just runs by itself. So does that last car running by itself go into the no losses set of cars and not in the 1 loss list for elimination type races?

No, the car that runs alone advances without racing against an opponent. You don't credit it with a loss; you credit it with a win.

If it helps, think of a bye as competing against a non-existent opponent who forfeits.

[DerbyDoDo]

Thanks Darin, I follow this now. I'm actually working on my own pwd racing software and first trying to understand how each type works.

I've got to go back to your web site and read more now to see if I follow each type before I start coding.

Thanks!