Displaying All Rankings and Times to Everyone after the Race

[Nitro Dan]

Our pack runs races by dens and then advances the top three from each den to the finals to compete for Pack Champion. After the race, we don't publish any of the rankings or times so that any racers could examine and see just how good (or bad) they actually did. For the past two years I've noticed that when I compare the top 15 fastest cars to the top 15 racers in the finals, there is at least one or two cars that ranked in the top 15 fastest, but did not make it to the finals. This is due to them coming in 4th place or later in the Den race, but still having high enough times to rank above the 15th place. Because I run the workshops, I feel obligated to at least let the "overlooked" racer/racers know that they really made a fast car and congratulate them on a job well done. I'm afraid that if I don't do at least this, the kid will do something in a different direction the following year that would make his car run worse, or that he may perceive that workshops are a waste of time and don't do him any good.

I've been thinking of somehow publishing all of the statistics for all the racers to view on our web site, but I'm also concerned this may have a negative effect on those who didn't do that well. Does anyone else out there publish the rankings and times for the entire pack to view? And if so are the parent/cub teams receptive to it?

-Nitro Dan

[Stan Pope]

I don't think that everybody needs to know who had the three slowest cars in the field! On the other hand, it is fair to tell what the range of times were, maybe even tell all of the times without names. Then tell individuals what their times were more privately. That communicates all the non-finalists really need to know.

[pack529holycross]

Our pack runs races by dens and then advances the top three from each den to the finals to compete for Pack Champion. After the race, we don't publish any of the rankings or times so that any racers could examine and see just how good (or bad) they actually did. For the past two years I've noticed that when I compare the top 15 fastest cars to the top 15 racers in the finals, there is at least one or two cars that ranked in the top 15 fastest, but did not make it to the finals. This is due to them coming in 4th place or later in the Den race, but still having high enough times to rank above the 15th place. Because I run workshops, I feel obligated to at least let the "overlooked" racer/racers know that they really made a fast car and congratulate them on a job well done. I'm afraid that if I don't do at least this, the kid will do something in a different direction the following year that would make his car run worse, or that he may perceive that workshops are a waste of time and don't do him any good.

I've been thinking of somehow publishing all of the statistics for all the racers to view on our web site, but I'm also concerned this may have a negative effect on those who didn't do that well. Does anyone else out there publish the rankings and times for the entire pack to view? And if so are the parent/cub teams receptive to it?

-Nitro Dan

By providing performance feedback for all without regards to best or worst, you are providing the results of their work in real time data. Consider it not a GRADE of their work, but the results regardless of the popularity of it's outcome. Selectively publishing results assumes that slow cars do not want to learn from the experience. Without knowing MY time as a slow car as it relates to the fastest cars, I will never know what baseline I am using to begin my quest for a better car.

Just my opinion
Nicholas

[dna1990]

Yes - feedback to everyone (esp those who were really into the build process) is important I think.

We publish all average results (not every heat). But we do so by eMail to the parents. If Johnny came in in the bottom of his rank, we let the parents decide how best to deliver that message and in what context.


As I think about it, perhaps we should only show times and not names. Because family A does OK and shows Billy the whole list. He then (in fine elementary school boy form) riddicules Johnny for being a whole tenth/second behind his peers...

Whoa, sorry I forgot myself there for a minute. To have winners you have to have losers. And boys have been (and will continue to be) picking on each other forever. Can't protect them from everything.

Make a giant announcement of losers? No. But try to sweep the losing times under the rug to save some feeling? No to that too.

[Stan Pope]

We publish all average results (not every heat). But we do so by eMail to the parents. If Johnny came in in the bottom of his rank, we let the parents decide how best to deliver that message and in what context.

As a builder/racer I would want to know details of my car's performance, run by run, lane by lane. So a full report of each Cub's runs to him and his family is good!

For context, show all the average times, sorted in descending order, but NO Names except the trophy winners / district race reps. Everybody knows who didn't win (they were most of the kids!)! No others need know who was "dead last." He doesn't need to be singled out!

[Mr. Slick]

We provide each racer with their "Individual Car Stats" from the GPRM software. We cut the report into strips that fit under each car. This allows the people to see how they did compared to the numbers we share of the "finalists" without singling out the slower builders at the den or pack level.

We also switched from the "Place of Finish" only K2 timer to the K3 which alternates between the "Place of Finish" and the time for each racer. This gives feedback to the racer for each heat and avoids a lot of the "I won every heat. Why didn't I get a trophy?" situations. The problem with the times being displayed is that by the time the races are half over most of the boys have figured out who has the fastest car and the rest are working on still getting a trophy.

After the event I do provide the full reports to the leaders of the group so they can share what they feel is appropriate. Being at the bottom isn't as bad a couple of weeks later when you have plans on how to improve figured out.

[SlartyBartFast]

Put all the times into a database, and create a report that gives a customised printout for each car.

Everyone gets the performace/results for the top finishers. Individuals, for every race a car was in, get names, finish order, and times for every car.

For cumulative data, provide a car's averages, medians, and any other statistical mumbo-jumbo you want and provide percentile information so the builder knows where in the pack their car was. With percentile information, no need to provide complete ranking lists.

Compare car results with average results in group, against fastest, but not against slowest.

A builder would then have very detailed information and only the personal info/track times of the cars they raced against.

My son received a player trading card for his soccer season produced with a photo of him on the front and stats on the back. Would be fun to provide the same for derbies.

[grifflew]

We don't put the complete rankings up on our big screen, but I do provide the complete set of data from GPRM to our committee. I cut out the individual car reports so each Scout gets his own and no one else's.

There are some parents that insist on seeing the entire results after the race, so we turn off the video projector and I show them privately on my laptop.

[12yearsrunning]

No others need know who was "dead last." He doesn't need to be singled out!

If handled properly, this can still be a positive experience for the scout. A ploy I've used in the past is awarding a "Dead Last But Finished" trophy. If given out consistently you may find it becomes a coveted award.

[gpraceman]

If handled properly, this can still be a positive experience for the scout. A ploy I've used in the past is awarding a "Dead Last But Finished" trophy. If given out consistently you may find it becomes a coveted award.

I think that I prefer calling it the "Best Gas Mileage" award. We had such an award in our old Awana club. We would publicize it in advance and would get racers vying for that award. It may not go over as well if there is no advanced publicity.

[Davhamm]

WOW.... really... you don't give out the names.. I think the kids can handle being in last. I would think they already have a good idea their car was not that fast. My guess is those in the back won't even want to see the results...

I thought the scouts were there to teach good sportsmanship and manors... If we can't expect scouts to act properly I think this society is in trouble..

Oh and to the OP why do you get to digest all the data and yet not share it with anyone else.. Seems very biased and unfair. If I were in your pack / den ect I think I would be very upset.

[Kenny]

In our neck of the world complete race data and stats are available on the web for those that are interested, of which there are a fair number. There is no attempt to scrub or anonymize the data (reported and zipped into a spreadsheet format. Council also publishes unabridged data and summaries too.

Personally, I cannot imagine withholding this information. The transparency also puts any "conspiracy theorists" at ease.

K