Trophies

Discussions on race planning, preparations and how to run a "fair" and fun race.
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Darin McGrew
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Re: Trophies

Post by Darin McGrew » Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:10 pm

Kenny wrote:The only concern that gets voiced from time to time is the notion of the design trophies becoming more of a "popularity contest." We haven't a great answer for that I'm afraid. I'm unaware of this being an issue thus far, but I suppose it could be a problem at some point.
One approach I've read about here (but never seen practiced) is to give each kid multiple votes that have to be used for different cars. With three votes, they can vote for their own car, their best friend's car, and the car they think is best. In the end, the self votes and buddy votes will cancel out, and the remaining votes will go to the car that deserves it.
Kenny wrote:How are your design awards administered? Scouts only vote? Leaders? A Design Czar?
We've always recruited neutral adults to judge the designs. The main qualification is that they not have any kids involved in the derby, and that they not personally know any of the kids involved in the derby.

*5 J's* wrote:Elder son took first place, but would have got two second place trophies in the construction/design categories if allowed. To me this would be TOO much.
I agree that one speed award and two design awards would be excessive. We've never allowed anyone to win more than one design award. But I don't think a speed award and a single design award would be excessive at all, even if a kid managed to win first place in both.



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Re: Trophies

Post by gpraceman » Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:49 pm

Kenny wrote:How are your design awards administered? Scouts only vote? Leaders? A Design Czar?
For our pack races, we've used members of the local fire department (one scout's dad was a fireman so he recruited a few buddies) or members of our pack's chartering organization (a Catholic church in our case). For our Awana races, we would recruit members of the church. None of the judges would be related to any of the kids that were racing.
*5 J's* wrote:However, the scout that took third place in speed - also won "Scout's Choice" but was not awarded it. Worst part is the scouts voted for this scout's car 3-1 - but yet our new rule precluded us from awarding it. So in one day - we see the good and the bad in a method.
I do think that if you have a special award that is voted on (like Best of Show), then that should be awarded to whoever gets the most votes. I can see spreading around the rest of the trophies so no one is taking home more than one, but I would make a Best of Show type award the exception to that.


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Nitro Dan
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Re: Trophies

Post by Nitro Dan » Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:31 pm

We went through the discussion of whether or not we should spread the trophies out this year. We give away three trophies for the Den Ranks and three for the Pack Champions. We also give out 15 Theme Award trophies. This allows some of our kids to walk away with up to three trophies. It was a lengthy discussion in our committee, but in the end we unanimously agreed NOT to use the rule of "one trophy per person".

Our reasoning was that we felt that Pinewood Derby is not a "recreational sport" where everyone gets a trophy, win or lose. With Pinewood Derby, someone has to win and someone has to lose, there is no other way around it. We also explored the "bump method" for the Pack Championship trophies, where the winner of one of the Championship Trophies would give his Den Trophy to the next person down; however, we felt that the kids were smart enough to realize that if they received a "bumped" trophy, then would know inside that it was a trophy they really didn't earn. To us, this didn't seem "fair, above all", which is the message we were trying to send out in our rules and guidelines.

Someone in our committee brought up the point that we might be placing a perceived value on the trophies. To illustrate, a scenario was described where every winner in the Rank Dens got $7 (instead of a trophy) and the top three champions all got $8. The top three champs actually received $15 and the Den Rank winners all received $7, with everyone else getting participation ribbons. The question was then ask did this seem fair? Everyone agreed that it seemed fair. Since our trophies didn't cost but $7 and $8 a piece, does it really matter if the top racers go out and buy two trophies with their $15 and the Rank winners go out and buy one with their $7?

If a cub works hard on making his car, "doing his best" and he happens to win his Den race and the Pack Championship (even a Theme Award as well), then we felt that he probably has earned the right to have those trophies. I know it may look "bad" to other parents within the organization, when one kids wins multiple trophies, but our 10 person committee agreed unanimously in the end, that doing it this way was the fairest thing we could do for our cubs.

-Nitro Dan


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FatSebastian
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Re: Trophies

Post by FatSebastian » Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:40 pm

Nitro Dan wrote:We give away three trophies for the Den Ranks and three for the Pack Champions.
Good analysis and justification, Nitro. FWIW, our unit does a similar thing except the den rank awards tend to be something other than shelf trophies (e.g., medals or medallions).



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Re: Trophies

Post by ah8tk » Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:31 pm

Nitro Dan, good post, I agree wholeheartedly. Pinewood Derby should not be spread the wealth for the people that do not want to spend the time to make a fast (or good looking) car. If the car gets the votes for the design then the award should be given as the voters chose.

In our pack everyone (scouts, parents, siblings etc..) is given a vote for the design awards (certificates). This year we found there was some ballot box stuffing but it did not effect the outcome of the vote.

This year we gave stands that resembled the trophies to all of the boys that did not get a trophy.

Image

These trophies and stands were homemade and everyone loved them.



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Re: Trophies

Post by *5 J's* » Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:33 pm

I do think that if you have a special award that is voted on (like Best of Show), then that should be awarded to whoever gets the most votes. I can see spreading around the rest of the trophies so no one is taking home more than one, but I would make a Best of Show type award the exception to that.
That is what I am currently leaning towards.



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Re: Trophies

Post by roosclan » Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:13 pm

Our pack makes sure that every scout gets a trophy of some sort. Most of them are decided during the race. 1st-4th speed in each den, plus 1st-4th overall (we have a "grand finals" for the top 12 racers). The fastest team/den gets a trophy as well (fastest cumulative time of everyone in the den). The scouts vote on the "Scouts' Choice" award, which is the one they like the best -- no names on the cars, but the kids figure out whose is whose. The most trophies a scout will get is 4, although I haven't seen it happen. 3 trophies happens frequently, as a scout may get 1st-3rd in their den, 1st-4th overall, and fastest team. My boys do this frequently. They have never won scout's choice, which my boys don't mind at all.

For everyone else, the pack leaders make up trophies to hand out. We've had the "Red, White, & Blue" award for a patriotic-themed car, we've had the "Jayhawk award" for the one scout that builds a KU Jayhawk car every year, but never wins at speed. The "gold bullion" award for the most gold-colored car, the "Cubmaster's Choice" award, the "BSA-theme" award for the car with the most Cub Scout/BSA logos on it, "Formula 1 Award" for a grand prix-looking car that barely made it across the finish line, etc. My favorite this year was the "Yeah, it's got a Hemi" Award for a kid that used one of my Pinecar engines that looks like a big engine with a blower on it. He kept coming in 5th place in his pack by less than 1/4 car length, and just barely missed the grand finals. These are made up during the race when it becomes apparent which cars won't be getting a speed trophy. We use a label printer to print off the award labels and stick them to the trophies.


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Re: Trophies

Post by Scoremaker » Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:45 am

My nephew Cub Scouts Pack let them win two trophies but there is no District race. When my son race his Pack they let them win both events but they could not do both events in District. You also have to think if Cub Scout is going do good at the District level at Speed or Design Trophies he cannot partication in both events. He also needs to think what event will he do best in when he goes to District too. Our Pack also gave out Registration from on which the scout place in at his Pack Race. This was email to the District pinewood derby chairman to make sure that no other Scout can race in this in event with a copy of the Registration Form is sign by there Cubmaster they also need to bring this copy with them to the District race.


particationScouts Name______________________ Pack #________
Rank (Circle) Tiger Wolf Bear Webelos
Emergency Contact _________________ Phone#_______
Cubmaster certification _______________________
Category entering Speed Showmanship
Position Placed 1st 2nd 3rd



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FatSebastian
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Re: Trophies

Post by FatSebastian » Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:57 am

Scoremaker wrote:You also have to think if Cub Scout is going do good at the District level at Speed or Design Trophies he cannot partication in both events.
Those are good points, SM. If awards are not doubled up, then six cars advance (1st, 2nd, 3rd in speed and 1st, 2nd, 3rd in show). By doubling up in the awards categories, the unit could be limiting its participation in the District or Council events if cars are not allowed to compete in both areas.



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