What's the plan for timer failure?
What's the plan for timer failure?
I've got back up plans for few different scenarios of failure. However, I really don't know what we would do if the timer failed. I suppose we could use a video camera at the finish line and look at replays.
Anyone thought this one through and got a plan?
Anyone thought this one through and got a plan?
Jason Henning
Not the victory but the action. Not the goal but the game. In the deed the glory.
Not the victory but the action. Not the goal but the game. In the deed the glory.
- FatSebastian
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Re: What's the plan for timer failure?
Good question. As long as you are using a points system based on placement, then (and odd number of) finish-line judges might be in order. Reviewing video after each race is too slow based on our experience, although a running video camera as a backup to the line judges comes in handy whenever the judges disagree, were inattentive, or the race was too close to call by eye.Husker wrote:I really don't know what we would do if the timer failed. I suppose we could use a video camera at the finish line and look at replays. Anyone thought this one through and got a plan?
- Stan Pope
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Re: What's the plan for timer failure?
On a 6 lane track, a full-fledged point system based on human judging will be very error prone. Even 4-lane tracks are a major challenge on the closer races.
A more reliable result can be based on one point for win, zero otherwise is insufficiently granular for 6 lanes. Maybe okay for 3 lanes, but loses accuracy rapidly for 4 or more.
My preference would be something like a three-lane quad elimination, which can be run without much preparation and is pretty accurate for 4 place trophies. Probably easier to run by grade but can be done for an entire pack. The kit to manage such a race is pretty compact. Two or three staff members need to know how to run it and others could be instructed quickly.
My "nightmare scenario" is that racing has progressed for quite a while when smoke wafts from the electronics and the display goes black. The equal number of runs and equal runs on each lane criteria have not been satisfied. While I know that I could apply some serious statistics to the data collected so far and provide a pretty accurate projection of the end results, I error band would be big enough to make trophy awards kinda iffy. Randy would blanch!
A more reliable result can be based on one point for win, zero otherwise is insufficiently granular for 6 lanes. Maybe okay for 3 lanes, but loses accuracy rapidly for 4 or more.
My preference would be something like a three-lane quad elimination, which can be run without much preparation and is pretty accurate for 4 place trophies. Probably easier to run by grade but can be done for an entire pack. The kit to manage such a race is pretty compact. Two or three staff members need to know how to run it and others could be instructed quickly.
My "nightmare scenario" is that racing has progressed for quite a while when smoke wafts from the electronics and the display goes black. The equal number of runs and equal runs on each lane criteria have not been satisfied. While I know that I could apply some serious statistics to the data collected so far and provide a pretty accurate projection of the end results, I error band would be big enough to make trophy awards kinda iffy. Randy would blanch!
Stan
"If it's not for the boys, it's for the birds!"
"If it's not for the boys, it's for the birds!"
- gpraceman
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Re: What's the plan for timer failure?
Well, you could always have a backup timer. That could just be one that is borrowed from another pack or you could go as far as building one of the DIY timers listed at GrandPrix Race Central for not a lot of money. If you do fall back to a different timer, I would make sure to score all heats by the finish order, not by the times. Better to make sure that any even slight timing differences between the two timers does not end up determining a trophy.
If you eyeball judge, get as many judges as you have track lanes. One judge is assigned to determine who was the 1st place car, another the 2nd place car, and so on. Of course, this becomes harder to do the more lanes your track has.
If you eyeball judge, get as many judges as you have track lanes. One judge is assigned to determine who was the 1st place car, another the 2nd place car, and so on. Of course, this becomes harder to do the more lanes your track has.
Randy Lisano
Romans 5:8
Awana Grand Prix and Pinewood Derby racing - Where a child, an adult and a small block of wood combine for a lot of fun and memories.
Romans 5:8
Awana Grand Prix and Pinewood Derby racing - Where a child, an adult and a small block of wood combine for a lot of fun and memories.
Re: What's the plan for timer failure?
I don't know of another track in the area with a digital timer. There might be a track in the neighboring Council but I haven't seen it.
I like Stan's idea to drop down to three lanes and run a triple or quad elimination schedule. I guess I need to prepare for this pretty soon.
I like Stan's idea to drop down to three lanes and run a triple or quad elimination schedule. I guess I need to prepare for this pretty soon.
Jason Henning
Not the victory but the action. Not the goal but the game. In the deed the glory.
Not the victory but the action. Not the goal but the game. In the deed the glory.
- Scoremaker
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Re: What's the plan for timer failure?
Husker, you need to have three line judge's to watch the cars, and use Small Dixie cups at the finish line. Our church three lane track does not have a timer so we use Small Dixie Cups. It works and maybe sometime there is a rerun on the heat but only the two cars. So I use the outside lanes to do the rerun. We use Partial Perfect-N Chart Generator "Young and Pope" Pinewood Racing Charts for the past four years and we only had to four rerun and two heats to decide 1st-3rd place. Had no problem with Partial Perfect-N Chart so far.
- FatSebastian
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Re: What's the plan for timer failure?
SM, are you suggesting positioning the cups as collision blocks?Scoremaker wrote:Husker, you need to have three line judge's to watch the cars, and use Small Dixie cups at the finish line.
Good point, Stan. I had forgotten that Husker was using a six-lane track . A lane reduction would definitely be appropriate.Stan Pope wrote:On a 6 lane track, a full-fledged point system based on human judging will be very error prone. Even 4-lane tracks are a major challenge on the closer races.
- Scoremaker
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Re: What's the plan for timer failure?
SM, are you suggesting positioning the cups as collision blocks? Yes
Re: What's the plan for timer failure?
I have the spare timer(s).... just in case. Never needed to use it in 16 years of racing, but I have it just in case.... the motto of a good scout.
I actually go over board and bring an entire electronics system with me: pc, wires, and timer.
I have had issues when running with other timers and had to pull out the old reliables, but I am now a dedicated fan of a specific brand of timer...
The only thing I don't have a spare with at the races is a printer. I leave the spare one at home. I figure that one of the parents probably has a printer that they could go and get if needed.
56 races so far this year..... only 2 left for scouts(100th anniversary event and the council race) and several for the league races.
I actually go over board and bring an entire electronics system with me: pc, wires, and timer.
I have had issues when running with other timers and had to pull out the old reliables, but I am now a dedicated fan of a specific brand of timer...
The only thing I don't have a spare with at the races is a printer. I leave the spare one at home. I figure that one of the parents probably has a printer that they could go and get if needed.
56 races so far this year..... only 2 left for scouts(100th anniversary event and the council race) and several for the league races.
Mr. Slick says: Honey, I am doing this for the kids, not myself.
- Stan Pope
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Re: What's the plan for timer failure?
Re: "So I use the outside lanes to do the rerun." Sorry I missed this the first time around. Rerunning heats on other than the scripted lanes reduces the accuracy of PPN results. PPN charts strive for greatest possible overall lane equity.Scoremaker wrote:Husker, you need to have three line judge's to watch the cars, and use Small Dixie cups at the finish line. Our church three lane track does not have a timer so we use Small Dixie Cups. It works and maybe sometime there is a rerun on the heat but only the two cars. So I use the outside lanes to do the rerun. We use Partial Perfect-N Chart Generator "Young and Pope" Pinewood Racing Charts for the past four years and we only had to four rerun and two heats to decide 1st-3rd place. Had no problem with Partial Perfect-N Chart so far.
Stan
"If it's not for the boys, it's for the birds!"
"If it's not for the boys, it's for the birds!"