2012 Revised Rules

Discussions on race planning, preparations and how to run a "fair" and fun race.
rpcarpe
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Re: 2012 Revised Rules

Post by rpcarpe » Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:22 pm

FatSebastian wrote:
*5 J's* wrote:I remember a rather lengthy discussion on issues in the bore a year or two ago.
Perhaps this one?
*5 J's* wrote:It does make me wonder - just how bad would it be to have a post race inspection [...] Anyway I wouldn't mind hearing some first hand account of the good and bad of post race isnpections.
The lengthy "graphite pad" discussion seemed to show (to me anyway) that post-race tear-down inspections are not necessarily conclusive, and can raise more questions than they settle.
Here Here!
The amazingly long drawn out problems that arose after that post-race tear down and disqualifications were a NIGHTMARE!! :shake: Don't Do Them!
Our District lost a number of great racers and volunteers over that episode.

Write short, simple rules a kid can easily follow. Inspect closely and let 'em race.


My wife started a new support group... Widows of the Pinewood Derby.

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Re: 2012 Revised Rules

Post by *5 J's* » Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:46 pm

Ok - appreciate all the input. Remember - this is not all mine, but a collaborative effort. I think these rules are much better then the old rules the FS linked to above.

We are keeping the "stock" wheelbase requirement, though I modified the wording a bit. Not perfect but I think it works.

I am reccomending deleting the prohibition against grooved axles as well as the post race inspection.

We still may cut some of the extra words however, the thought was if you saying something is prohibited it would benefit newbies to provide specific examples.
________________



GENERAL:
The race is open to all Tiger Scouts, Cub Scouts and Webelos Scouts (1st year, 2nd year or just graduated to Boy Scouts) registered in a Pack in the Abnaki District. In these rules the Scouts will be referred to as “Drivers”, parents/guardians will be referred to as “Pit Crew”. All cars competing in the 2012 District Pinewood Derby must have been made for a 2012 Pack Pinewood Derby. Cars made for any previous year pinewood derby are not acceptable.

ELIGIBILITY:
The top five finishers from each individual Pack Pinewood Derby are eligible to compete in the District Pinewood Derby. If a racer cannot attend the District Derby the racer may have another scout race his car or an alternate driver may be chosen to represent the pack or district. This will be left to the respective Pack’s to decide. Adults will not be allowed to race a car in the event that the youth cannot attend the event.

CAR SPECS:
Pinewood derby racecars will be built from an Official Grand Prix Pinewood Derby Kit. The purchase of machined wheels and polished axles from other suppliers is prohibited. If replacement parts are needed they must be purchased as unmodified official BSA parts. Decorative items such as steering wheels, drivers, spoilers, decals and interior details are permissible as long as the finished car meets the rules and specifications. Drivers are encouraged not to promote the use of alcoholic beverages or tobacco products by the use of decals advertising these products when decorating their racecars.
A. Body - The main body structure must be made of the wood block from the official kit. Cars that were purchased completed may not be used. Cars must be tuned or aligned by the racer and may not be sent to third party facilities for tuning or other performance enhancements. Adult supervision is encouraged.
B. Width - Not to exceed 2 3/4 inches
C. Length - Not to exceed 7 inches
D. Weight - Not to exceed 5.0 ounces
E. Height - Not to exceed 3 inches
F. Center Rail Width Clearance – Must clear center guide rails, typically no less than 1-3/4 inches minimum.
G. Bottom Clearance - Must clear center guide rails, typically no less than less than 3/8 inches from track surface.
H. Wheelbase – The use of the pre-cut axle locations in the official pinewood car block is recommended but not required. The use of axle holes is allowed, however the following dimensions must be maintained:
• Wheelbase of 4 3/8 inches with axles no less than 7/8” from one end of the body and no more than 1 3/4” from the other end.
I. Front End – Depending upon the track, the front of the car may rest against a short starting pin. We therefore require that the front bottom of the car which rests on the pin is no higher than 1" above the track. The front end must be at least ½ inches wide in the middle. No part of the car can extend beyond the starting pin.
J. Miscellaneous -
The following items are PROHIBITED:
• Starting devices, or propellants of any kind
• Electronic or lighting devices that interfere with the race electronics.
• Liquids, wet paint, oil, sticky substance, or powders of any kind (other than axle lubrication)
• Glass or excessively fragile parts
• Springs, bearings, bushings, washers, sleeves, hubcaps or inserts attached to or in contact with the axle, body or wheels.
• Loose objects on car
• Magnets
• No part of any car or attachment to any car that is metal, pointed, sharp, and/or jagged may be capable of contacting any part of the track.

WHEELS:
Only Official Scout Grand Prix wheels will be allowed. The purchase of colored or replacement wheels is allowed provided they are unmodified official BSA parts. All lettering, both inside and outside, must remain and be visible. The fluting and other BSA markings on the outside wheel area must remain visible. Outer wheel surface may be lightly sanded or shaved but must not be reshaped in any way in an attempt to lighten the wheel, minimize tread contact, or alter aerodynamics. A minimum wheel diameter of 1.170” and width of 0.360” must be maintained and will be measured at check-in. Tread surface must be flat and parallel to the wheel bore. You may true the hubs. You may add material to the inside of the wheel, but not the bore, to aid in balancing (glue, fingernail polish, tape) of the wheel, but no material may be removed. Please note: There are aftermarket modified wheels that are LIGHTENED. This is usually done by turning the wheels on a lathe and removing material from the inside of the wheel. These wheels are NOT allowed and EASILY RECOGNIZED at inspection. Cars with these wheels will not be permitted to race.
The following are PROHIBITED:
• The purchase of polished or machined wheels from other suppliers
• Rounding of wheel edges
• Grooving, H-cutting or V-cutting
• Altering of wheel profile
• Drilling sidewalls
• Hollowing, sanding, or otherwise removing or modifying material from inside the wheel
• Wheel covers or hubcaps
There must be at least four wheels on the car, however, it is not required that all four wheels make contact with the track surface. Each wheel must be mounted on an axle, on the outside of the car, in the vertical position, at no more than a 45 degree angle. Each wheel must be attached directly to the car by an axle and spin freely. No part of the car, or any attachment to the car, may be capable of coming into contact with the track other than the wheel(s).

AXLES:
BSA nail type axles are required with an overall diameter of no less than .084 inches for each wheel. The purchase of replacement axles is allowed provided they are official BSA parts. Removing crimp marks/burrs and polishing are allowed as long as overall diameter is not reduced below .084 requirements. Axles must not be connected to any device that mechanically alters rotation and spin. Axles must be mounted into the wood sections of car.
The following are PROHIBITED:
• The purchase of polished or machined wheels from other suppliers

LUBRICATION:
Approved lubricants include (but are not limited to) graphite, Teflon, Nyloil, and Krytox. Over-application of lubricant which results in excessive shedding onto the track is not allowed. Cars will be lubricated before registration/inspection. No other lubricating will be allowed once the car has passed inspection.

INSPECTION:
Each car must pass inspection by the Official Inspection Committee before it may compete. After acceptance only the drivers may handle the cars. Once cars have been registered, weighed, and inspected, they will remain in the custody of the Pack and District Race Officials until the end of the competition. Any driver (including a member of the pit crew) has the right to appeal to the race officials for an interpretation of these rules. The race officials, by majority vote, will be the final interpreters of these rules. However, an interpretation of the rules at the pack level does not necessarily ensure a similar interpretation at the district level. All rulings by the Race Officials at each level of competition will be considered final. The Pack or District Inspection Team will weigh all cars at registration. The readings of the Official Race Scale at each event will be considered final. It is possible scale measurements will differ between the Pack and District Pinewood Derbies. Drivers and their pit crews must be prepared to adjust weight to meet the readings of the Official Race Scale at each level of competition.

REPAIRS:
If a car suffers a mechanical problem during a race (loses an axle, breaks a wheel, etc.), the driver or his pit crew will have up to five minutes to fix the car. The driver will then be allowed to race his car. If repairs cannot be made in this time frame, the car will be disqualified. If a car suffers a mechanical problem after a race, the driver or his pit crew will have five minutes or until the next race to fix the car. If repairs cannot be made in this time frame, the car will be disqualified.

BEST OF SHOW:
Each Pack will determine a “Best of Show” (BOS) car to send to the District Pinewood Derby. All BOS cars are required to meet the same rules and regulations as stated in the Pinewood Derby rules. BOS cars must be race able cars and pass the same inspections as top 5 racers, and have raced in a 2012 Pinewood Derby Race. Although a BOS car need not qualify for the District races, if the car does qualify as a top racer, they can still compete in the District race. BOS cars that do not qualify for their Pack Pinewood Derby or were made for a prior year's derby will be disqualified.
Last edited by *5 J's* on Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: 2012 Revised Rules

Post by FatSebastian » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:56 pm

*5 J's* wrote:We still may cut some of the extra words
I think this is a good idea, as verbose rules can overwhelm racers and these rules are still almost 1600 words. Allow me to make some suggestive examples that attempt to omit a few words here and there...
The race is open to all Tiger Scouts, Cub Scouts and Webelos Scouts (1st year, 2nd year or just graduated to Boy Scouts) registered in a Pack in the Abnaki District.
The race is open to all registered Cub Scouts (including Webelos having recently crossed over to Boy Scouts) in the Abnaki District.
Drivers are encouraged not to promote the use of alcoholic beverages or tobacco products by the use of decals advertising these products when decorating their racecars.
Race cars should not advertise alcohol or tobacco.
The purchase of machined wheels and polished axles from other suppliers is prohibited. If replacement parts are needed they must be purchased as unmodified official BSA parts.
Replacement parts must be purchased as unmodified BSA parts; modified wheels and axles from other suppliers are prohibited.
Cars that were purchased completed may not be used. Cars must be tuned or aligned by the racer and may not be sent to third party facilities for tuning or other performance enhancements.
Cars that were purchased pre-assembled or otherwise enhanced by third party facilities are prohibited.
• No part of any car or attachment to any car that is metal, pointed, sharp, and/or jagged may be capable of contacting any part of the track.
• Metal, pointed, sharp, and/or jagged parts or attachments that may contact any part of the track.

And so on...

It is not clear how the axle diameter specification will be enforced, or what performance advantage that is attempting to address. Looser tolerances are generally an impediment without bushings. IMO it is an unnecessary complication for both inspectors and builders.



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Re: 2012 Revised Rules

Post by Darin McGrew » Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:51 am

*5 J's* wrote:• Wheelbase of 4 3/8 inches with axles no less than 7/8” from one end of the body and no more than 1 3/4” from the other end.
You really don't like cars that are shorter than 7" long. IIRC, it takes about 5/8" of wood beyond the axle to make sure the wood extends further than the wheels. Cutting the block 5/8" beyond each axle would yield a car about 5 5/8" long. I don't see any reason why such a car shouldn't be allowed to race, but it violates the no less than 7/8” from one end of the body rule.



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Re: 2012 Revised Rules

Post by *5 J's* » Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:55 am

Darin McGrew wrote:
*5 J's* wrote:• Wheelbase of 4 3/8 inches with axles no less than 7/8” from one end of the body and no more than 1 3/4” from the other end.
You really don't like cars that are shorter than 7" long. IIRC, it takes about 5/8" of wood beyond the axle to make sure the wood extends further than the wheels. Cutting the block 5/8" beyond each axle would yield a car about 5 5/8" long. I don't see any reason why such a car shouldn't be allowed to race, but it violates the no less than 7/8” from one end of the body rule.
lol - no Darin, I really don't have issue with cars <7" long. All the other wording just seemed to make it more confusing to those that are new to Pinewood Derby. Maybe I'll just go back to the original wording, and if somebody asks I'll explain that it's how they have to drill the RAW block. After that - feel free to lop the ends off.



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Re: 2012 Revised Rules

Post by *5 J's* » Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:00 am

FatSebastian wrote:
*5 J's* wrote:We still may cut some of the extra words
I think this is a good idea, as verbose rules can overwhelm racers and these rules are still almost 1600 words. Allow me to make some suggestive examples that attempt to omit a few words here and there...
The race is open to all Tiger Scouts, Cub Scouts and Webelos Scouts (1st year, 2nd year or just graduated to Boy Scouts) registered in a Pack in the Abnaki District.
The race is open to all registered Cub Scouts (including Webelos having recently crossed over to Boy Scouts) in the Abnaki District.
Drivers are encouraged not to promote the use of alcoholic beverages or tobacco products by the use of decals advertising these products when decorating their racecars.
Race cars should not advertise alcohol or tobacco.
The purchase of machined wheels and polished axles from other suppliers is prohibited. If replacement parts are needed they must be purchased as unmodified official BSA parts.
Replacement parts must be purchased as unmodified BSA parts; modified wheels and axles from other suppliers are prohibited.
Cars that were purchased completed may not be used. Cars must be tuned or aligned by the racer and may not be sent to third party facilities for tuning or other performance enhancements.
Cars that were purchased pre-assembled or otherwise enhanced by third party facilities are prohibited.
• No part of any car or attachment to any car that is metal, pointed, sharp, and/or jagged may be capable of contacting any part of the track.
• Metal, pointed, sharp, and/or jagged parts or attachments that may contact any part of the track.

And so on...

It is not clear how the axle diameter specification will be enforced, or what performance advantage that is attempting to address. Looser tolerances are generally an impediment without bushings. IMO it is an unnecessary complication for both inspectors and builders.
Excellent FS - I appreciate your help with this and welcome any other suggested carving. I wish to keep the intent of each comment, but would like to make this a bit less verbose. I know earlier is was discussed how some items are repetitive, such as the wheel tread must be flat, then it is stated that you cannot V, or H cut. I would like to preserve these examples of what is not okay, just for clarification to the newbies - but the cuts you suggest above are perfect.

I would appreciate any more suggestions you may have. BIG THANKS.

EDIT: With respect to the axle diameter. You are correct - if they cannot modify the bore it would do no good to sand to a needle axle. So, I will strike this rule. I'm actually in a chopping mood this morning so I am going to modify the axle section to:

AXLES:
Only Official Scout Grand Prix axles are allowed. The purchase of replacement axles is allowed provided they are official BSA parts. The purchase of machined or polished axles from other suppliers is prohibited (restated from above for reinforcement). Axles must not be connected to any device that mechanically alters rotation and spin.



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Re: 2012 Revised Rules

Post by FatSebastian » Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:15 pm

*5 J's* wrote:I appreciate your help with this and welcome any other suggested carving.
Let me contemplate this some more then, as I am not practiced in reworking rules for events that are not my own.
*5 J's* wrote:I know earlier it was discussed how some items are repetitive, such as the wheel tread must be flat, then it is stated that you cannot V, or H cut. I would like to preserve these examples of what is not okay, just for clarification to the newbies...
It is interesting to see what each of us thinks is useful to include, and why. My thought was that terms like "H-cut" would be pinehead jargon unfamiliar to "the newbies", and therefore these descriptors might not help novices at all. Rather it could be a source of confusion if they are uncertain as to what is being disallowed.

If I really wanted to contrast allowed v. disallowed tread modifications, I would consider the graphical approach of the inexpensive Cub Scout Grand Prix Pinewood Derby Guidebook (BSA No. 33721) which includes illustrations of various disallowed tread modifications. Here's one Pack's approach, for example:

Image



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Re: 2012 Revised Rules

Post by *5 J's* » Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:02 pm

FatSebastian wrote:
*5 J's* wrote:It is interesting to see what each of us thinks is useful to include, and why. My thought was that terms like "H-cut" would be pinehead jargon unfamiliar to "the newbies", and therefore these descriptors might not help novices at all. Rather it could be a source of confusion if they are uncertain as to what is being disallowed.
Yea, I guess I should say newbies that start looking at websites or publications - so when they see an "H" cut wheel they can readily understand that this mod is prohibited. If I left the rule as tread must be flat and parallel to the bore, one would need to evaluate whether a "V" cut or "H" cut wheel meets this rule. A pinehead immediately knows they don't meet this rule - a newbie has to think about it.
FatSebastian wrote:If I really wanted to contrast allowed v. disallowed tread modifications, I would consider the graphical approach of the inexpensive Cub Scout Grand Prix Pinewood Derby Guidebook (BSA No. 33721) which includes illustrations of various disallowed tread modifications. Here's one Pack's approach, for example:

Image
Yes we include the graphic. It does help.

Thanks FS -



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Re: 2012 Revised Rules

Post by FatSebastian » Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:11 pm

*5 J's* wrote:I would appreciate any more suggestions you may have. BIG THANKS.
I started a proposed rewording and thereby was able to reduce the bulk by ~1/3. But I hesitate to share the outcome because the exercise raised a few questions that need to be settled first.
The top five finishers from each individual Pack Pinewood Derby are eligible to compete in the District Pinewood Derby. If a racer cannot attend the District Derby the racer may have another scout race his car or an alternate driver may be chosen to represent the pack or district.
The word finishers could mean cars, or it could mean drivers. Does alternate driver imply the use of different car, or a different non-owner handler as chosen by the Pack (rather than the scout)? It makes a huge difference in how the rule would be interpreted, and also whether a driver/crew could build a new car between the Pack and District races.
After acceptance only the drivers may handle the cars.
This implies that the boys must stage their own cars. Is this correct? No race officials or other people are allowed to touch the cars from the start and end of the competition?
If a car suffers a mechanical problem during a race… the driver or his pit crew will have up to five minutes to fix the car.
This rule conflicts with the previously quoted one.
If a car suffers a mechanical problem after a race, the driver or his pit crew will have five minutes or until the next race to fix the car.
This could suggest that if the car is dropped during staging, no opportunity for repair will be afforded, because "the start of the next race" is immediate. I don't think this was intended.
Outer wheel surface may be lightly sanded or shaved but must not be reshaped in any way in an attempt to lighten the wheel, minimize tread contact, or alter aerodynamics.
It is not obvious whether outer wheel surface implies just the tread, the outward-facing sidewall, or all exposed surfaces except the bore. What is intended?

Not much mention of alteration of the bores. Presumably the bores can be polished (even tapped).

Also, these rules are mostly construction prohibitions with little guidance toward race operations. What if a car consistently jumps the center rail or DNFs? What if a car interferes with another?



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Re: 2012 Revised Rules

Post by whodathunkit » Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:17 pm

*5 J's*
Your rules are starting to look like this one:
http://www.northernstarbsa.org/forms/ac ... yrules.pdf" target="_blank

Do you let the kids use finder flairs?
And do you let them use other stable materials to enhance the design?

Like what is seen in these rules.


What type of automobile can be spelled the same forwards & backwards?

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Re: 2012 Revised Rules

Post by Darin McGrew » Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:16 pm

*5 J's* wrote:
Darin McGrew wrote:You really don't like cars that are shorter than 7" long. IIRC, it takes about 5/8" of wood beyond the axle to make sure the wood extends further than the wheels. Cutting the block 5/8" beyond each axle would yield a car about 5 5/8" long. I don't see any reason why such a car shouldn't be allowed to race, but it violates the no less than 7/8” from one end of the body rule.
lol - no Darin, I really don't have issue with cars <7" long. All the other wording just seemed to make it more confusing to those that are new to Pinewood Derby. Maybe I'll just go back to the original wording, and if somebody asks I'll explain that it's how they have to drill the RAW block. After that - feel free to lop the ends off.
If you specify a maximum distance of 7/8" between one axle and the end of the car, and a maximum distance of 1 3/4" between the other axle and the end of the car, then I think it allows cars shorter than 7", and it preserves your intent.

whodathunkit wrote:Do you let the kids use finder flairs?
And do you let them use other stable materials to enhance the design?
I think fender flairs and decorations are covered by this sentence: "Decorative items such as steering wheels, drivers, spoilers, decals and interior details are permissible as long as the finished car meets the rules and specifications."

Although it still isn't clear whether fender flairs can extend below the bottom of the car body (closer than 3/8" from the track) as long as they do so in a way that doesn't interfere with the guide rail clearance.


PS: FatSebastian, I like the way you analyze the rules. If you're ever in the San Francisco Bay area or the Chicago area, you might try a gimmick car rallye. :)



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Re: 2012 Revised Rules

Post by rpcarpe » Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:13 am

One quick writing style tip: Use active voice instead of passive 'be' type verbs.
'We do not allow modified wheel treads' instead of 'Modified wheel treads are prohibited'.
It engages the reader and gives them clear directions. I 'get' to re-learn this when I write for certain projects.


My wife started a new support group... Widows of the Pinewood Derby.

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Re: 2012 Revised Rules

Post by FatSebastian » Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:26 am

rpcarpe wrote:Use active voice instead of passive 'be' type verbs. 'We do not allow modified wheel treads' instead of 'Modified wheel treads are prohibited'. It engages the reader and gives them clear directions.
Your own proposed rule wording seems to support the notion that rules, specifications, or regulations should be simple, objective statements that are not actively voiced.

An active style can draw attention to the originator of the rule and away from the subject of the rule. "We do not allow modified wheel treads" suggests that the rule may be arbitrary, and might have been allowed except that "we" didn't allow it, leading the reader to wonder "Who is 'we'?".



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Re: 2012 Revised Rules

Post by *5 J's* » Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:51 am

FatSebastian wrote:
*5 J's* wrote: The top five finishers from each individual Pack Pinewood Derby are eligible to compete in the District Pinewood Derby. If a racer cannot attend the District Derby the racer may have another scout race his car or an alternate driver may be chosen to represent the pack or district.

The word finishers could mean cars, or it could mean drivers. Does alternate driver imply the use of different car, or a different non-owner handler as chosen by the Pack (rather than the scout)? It makes a huge difference in how the rule would be interpreted, and also whether a driver/crew could build a new car between the Pack and District races.
The top five cars are eligible. I had a statement that the cars would be impounded and could not be overhauled that may have clarified that, but I removed the rule as I don’t want to impound cars I and I saw no reason to prohibit retuning. The alternate driver would be a different scout selected by the winning driver to run the winning car at the District race. If Johnny places second and cannot attend he can ask Billy to race his second place car at District for him. The old rules said if a driver couldn’t race in the District he could not have somebody else race his car and the next place finisher would be given the option to attend.
FatSebastian wrote:
*5 J's* wrote:After acceptance only the drivers may handle the cars.
This implies that the boys must stage their own cars. Is this correct? No race officials or other people are allowed to touch the cars from the start and end of the competition?
Correct. We have the scouts stage their own cars and prohibit race officials from touching the cars.
FatSebastian wrote:
*5 J's* wrote: If a car suffers a mechanical problem during a race… the driver or his pit crew will have up to five minutes to fix the car.
This rule conflicts with the previously quoted one.
It is an exception to the prior rule. Normally only the scout will touch his car, however, if the car is damaged in completion we allow the scout and parent five minutes to fix the car.
FatSebastian wrote:
*5 J's* wrote:If a car suffers a mechanical problem after a race, the driver or his pit crew will have five minutes or until the next race to fix the car.
This could suggest that if the car is dropped during staging, no opportunity for repair will be afforded, because "the start of the next race" is immediate. I don't think this was intended.
Correct, not intended. I guess it should say something like “If a car suffers a mechanical problem the driver or his pit crew will have five minutes to fix the car”.
FatSebastian wrote:
*5 J's* wrote: Outer wheel surface may be lightly sanded or shaved but must not be reshaped in any way in an attempt to lighten the wheel, minimize tread contact, or alter aerodynamics.
It is not obvious whether outer wheel surface implies just the tread, the outward-facing sidewall, or all exposed surfaces except the bore. What is intended?
Not much mention of alteration of the bores. Presumably the bores can be polished (even tapped).
The overall intent is to allow correction to mold anomalies – but no lightening of the wheel. So you may sand or shave (hand lathe) the tread and inner edge of the tread to make an out-of-round wheel round and square the inner edge – but you cannot take anything off the outward facing sidewall. You may also true or square the hubs. Bores may be polished. Tapped? I’m not going to specifically prohibit it as I cannot inspect for it.
FatSebastian wrote:Also, these rules are mostly construction prohibitions with little guidance toward race operations. What if a car consistently jumps the center rail or DNFs? What if a car interferes with another?
Not sure. I guess at this point I would say the car has suffered a mechanical problem and follow that rule unless somebody has a better suggestion.



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Re: 2012 Revised Rules

Post by *5 J's* » Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:24 am

Darin McGrew wrote:If you specify a maximum distance of 7/8" between one axle and the end of the car, and a maximum distance of 1 3/4" between the other axle and the end of the car, then I think it allows cars shorter than 7", and it preserves your intent.
Okay - I think everybody here understands my intent. You guys have me trigger shy on saying okay this is what I will go with. Does this work? It seems to.
Darin McGrew wrote:
whodathunkit wrote:Do you let the kids use finder flairs?
And do you let them use other stable materials to enhance the design?
I think fender flairs and decorations are covered by this sentence: "Decorative items such as steering wheels, drivers, spoilers, decals and interior details are permissible as long as the finished car meets the rules and specifications."

Although it still isn't clear whether fender flairs can extend below the bottom of the car body (closer than 3/8" from the track) as long as they do so in a way that doesn't interfere with the guide rail clearance.
I don't mind if they use fender flairs or if they extend down as long at they clear the track.



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