Lubrication & Break-In Procedure

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*5 J's*
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Lubrication & Break-In Procedure

Post by *5 J's* »

Last year we followed the method outlined in David Meades Book "Pinewood Derby Speed Secret". We put graphite in the bore, then inserted the axle through the bore, then into the car body. We then put a pad on a dremel to spin the wheels in the direction they will travel for five minutes per wheel. We would stop every minute or so and put a couple more puffs of graphite in the bore (we did this procedure on each wheel and from each side - bore and axle).

This year we prepped the bore per Sporty's procedure and then burnished MaxV graphite into the bore using a q-tip. We also have attempted to put a micro layer of graphite on the axle by placing the axle in a pin vice and rotating on a graphite covered cloth.

The question is - after installation and alignment - should I lube more? If so, how should I break-in? (If this is covered already please let me know the thread).
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Re: Lubrication & Break-In Procedure

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*5 J's* wrote:Last year we followed the method outlined in David Meades Book "Pinewood Derby Speed Secret".
5Js, we tried that method a couple of years ago. We did a before-and-after test and, FWIW, our spin times dropped measurably after "breaking in the wheels" using the method described. It's like running hundreds of races and we felt it unnecessarily abraded the bores. After that we just rolled the wheels back and forth a few times on the table to distribute the graphite.
*5 J's* wrote:We also have attempted to put a micro layer of graphite on the axle by placing the axle in a pin vice and rotating on a graphite covered cloth The question is - after installation and alignment - should I lube more? If so, how should I break-in?
My understanding is you are race-ready after applying the monomolecular layer of lube on the axle.
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Re: Lubrication & Break-In Procedure

Post by *5 J's* »

Thanks for the feedback FS. I didn't have any of the Super-Z graphite - but I followed the lubrication procedures in Lectures 16 & 17 using MaxV graphite.
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Re: Lubrication & Break-In Procedure

Post by sporty »

I found that the q-tip burnishg method with my bore prep process, caused more damage to the bore than what it was worth.

Try using extra fluffy pipe cleaner to burnish you're bores with graphite.

Yes, after this You still should add lube into the wheel bore for race or for a few test runs / break in.

This yields the best results for us.


No offense here, But I feel some of the things is the book, may be outdated tips and process's. Compared to the new processes and achievements in the past year or so.
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Re: Lubrication & Break-In Procedure

Post by *5 J's* »

Thanks Sporty - I was going to do the pipe cleaner's but seems as though the kiddies used up my good ones for a craft. I VERY lightly rolled the wheels in the bore. I looked at them with the 20x loupe after - and they still looked great. But, I agree that it would be VERY easy to mess up the beautiful bore your method produces - if you don't have the big fluffy pipe cleaners and use a q-tip rod - do it VERY lightly so as to not screw up the bore. DO NOT CHUCK THE Q-TIP IN A DRILL AND RUN THROUGH A HIGHLY POLISHED BORE.
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Re: Lubrication & Break-In Procedure

Post by Davhamm »

Hmmmm, I have used Sporty's method for bore polishing on both my axles and wheels (tread area) (ok not the rod but that level of sand paper). But we always went one step further, on the 12000 paper we put some moly and polished /burnished with that. Gives the wheel tread a nice silver coat... I figured next year I will do the same with the hubs using a rod as a holder.
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Re: Lubrication & Break-In Procedure

Post by FatSebastian »

Davhamm wrote:Gives the wheel tread a nice silver coat...
Are you concerned at all that the wheel treads might slip around on the track?
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Re: Lubrication & Break-In Procedure

Post by Davhamm »

We run on a new Best track, so its smooth. Haven't had an issue with that yet. I guess if there were a side load I would rather the wheel slide than that load gets passed up to the axle.
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Re: Lubrication & Break-In Procedure

Post by doct1010 »

FatSebastian wrote:
Davhamm wrote:Gives the wheel tread a nice silver coat...
Are you concerned at all that the wheel treads might slip around on the track?
Sliding vs. rolling. Good point FS
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Re: Lubrication & Break-In Procedure

Post by FatSebastian »

Davhamm wrote:We run on a new Best track, so its smooth. [...] I guess if there were a side load I would rather the wheel slide than that load gets passed up to the axle.
What if the wheel, sliding under a side load, smacks the rail? (Your track is "smooth" and treads slick - consider the lack of directional control an automobile might have on, say, ice.) :scratching:
sporty wrote:No offense here, But I feel some of the things is the book, may be outdated tips and process's. Compared to the new processes and achievements in the past year or so.
Most of the recommendations can still be used with modern kits, although improved approaches certainly now exist. IIRC, there is no acknowledgment of RR in the BGB, for example.
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Re: Lubrication & Break-In Procedure

Post by Davhamm »

I guess at this point, I will assume i have not exceeded whatever the magic point of coefficient of friction is. I "polish" the tread to eliminate sticktion to the track. So far our car has not had a wobble, or left the rail.

I guess if my car wheels were trying to apply a force down to the track (acceleration, deaccleration, cornering) I would be concerned, but since I think ideally my car track interface should have zero non verticle forces going through it I will continue to make them as smooth as possible.

Also if I want some friction how much? how would we determine the optimal amount?

Here is one video of this years race. Her car is the 2nd from the right. Looks like it goes to the rail and stays there. (This car had about 2" of drift over a 4' run).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5bt4RTGUOY" target="_blank
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Re: Lubrication & Break-In Procedure

Post by FatSebastian »

Davhamm wrote:So far our car has not had a wobble
:thinking: Hmmm... well since you mention it, to my eye it looks like the cars hit a seam at the bottom the incline (right at the start of frame :45 ) and her car seems to wobble (not much) over the next four to six feet or so. The yellow car seemed effected even more by the seam. Am I imagining this? (It wouldn't be the first time.)
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Re: Lubrication & Break-In Procedure

Post by Pinewood Daddy »

sporty wrote:Try using extra fluffy pipe cleaner to burnish you're bores with graphite.

Yes, after this You still should add lube into the wheel bore for race or for a few test runs / break in.

This yields the best results for us.
SPORTY!! I'm not sure you've mentioned adding graphite at assembly before! What is your procedure? Our cars are done and I'm about to dial in the alignment. I don't want to wreck those shiny bores, even on the alignment board at low speed! We'll do a few test runs with both sets of wheels. The race is Friday!!!
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Re: Lubrication & Break-In Procedure

Post by sporty »

After I do my bore prer,

i use extra fluffy pipe cleaner, fill wheel bore with my pick of lube. run through for about 5 seconds, fill and re-peat about 5 to 6 times.

both sides of the wheel bore.

yes you use allot of lube, putting something down underneath to capture some of lube allow for re-use, if clean and not damaged lube.

Then I run 1 to 3 test runs. then add the typical amount of lube info each wheel bore. 2 to 3 good dabs with small tipped brush. then race at the races.

I usually do this just before check in.

Sporty
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Re: Lubrication & Break-In Procedure

Post by Pinewood Daddy »

Thanks, I'm glad I asked.

After the test runs do you spin in the graphite for a few seconds by hand between dabs? That's what I'm about to do after a few runs down the alignment board. I just need to dial in the drift, both low speed and medium speed (raise the board higher).
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