Pennies From Heaven !!

General discussions for car and semi-truck racers.
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Ratrodsrule1
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Pennies From Heaven !!

Post by Ratrodsrule1 »

There's always too much month at the end of the money when you have 6 kids. LONG STORY but my Niece has 3 kids and married a guy with 3 kids. Most are Derby age. Tungsten's out of the question. I once saw a post on this forum by Speedster about building a wedge car using pennies as weight. He mentioned using a standard block with pre cut axle slots and using one end or the other as the front (can't remember if it was the long or short end). Then drilling penny sized holes in front and behind the rear axle at certain depths and ending up with approximately a 1" COG. Anyone know how to achieve this with an extended wheel base of "say" 1"to axle from the front and rear of the car ? Thanks
Speedster
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Re: Pennies From Heaven !!

Post by Speedster »

Ratrodsrules1, Welcome to Derby talk.
Auto Zone sells a single sheet of 3M 3000 grit Trizact Performance Sandpaper wet use only. I know, I'm on the wrong Topic.

FWIW, Doc Jobe says there is a benefit for the short wheel base and a benefit for an extended wheelbase and they cancel each other out. I won't type it all out unless you want me to do that.

You always use the long end for the Front. You can't extend the wheelbase to 5 1/2" because there's not enough wood up front and you can't move the rear axle slot because of the construction of the car. Older pennies were used because of their heavier weight but that's not very important. You control the depth of the holes. A 3/4' Forstner bit was used to drill the holes. It's wise to drill the holes before the block is cut. I practiced on a piece of wood so I could drill the holes as close to the bottom as possible. The rear hole is 1 1/2" deep for 20 pennies and the front hole is 1" deep for 13 pennies. You could go a bit deeper on the rear hole. After the front axle slot you start to have a lot of wood. You can drill out as much as you want. After the car was cut I sanded the block on the belt sander to the very top of the pennies. The highest point on the car is 7/8". I never put wheels on the block but I have a feeling this design could be made to go really Fast.
I'm just curious. Are you using Awana wheels with those axles?
Ratrodsrule1
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Re: Pennies From Heaven !!

Post by Ratrodsrule1 »

Thanks so much Speedster, trying to help my Niece and her Husband build a fleet. With 6 kids and him being blue-collar and even working 2 jobs while Mom stays home with the kids the budget is more than tight. In fact, i didn't know this until after the fact but someone in the church actually bought their AWANA kits for them for this years Grand Prix and helped with the build because they simply didn't have the extra funds or needed tools to do anything. When one of his little ones won an award for design the whole family was stoked and can't wait till next year. I gotta help them. Yes, we're only allowed to use the AWANA stuff supplied in the kits, BTW because AWANA axles are fairly smooth from the factory are you recommending using only using the 3000 for sanding ? I can get them a can of Mothers M & A for final polishing unless you reccommend something else, one last question, how far away from in front of and behind the axle slot do you drill the holes ? Thanks for your kindness and again, thanks for the already supplied info and thanks in advance for any other tips you may be able to give us. :idea:
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Re: Pennies From Heaven !!

Post by Eagle »

Stopped by a local junior high, in a different school district and asked if they planned on participating in http://www.TheWestCoastGrandPrix.com I gat an immediate, "No - it's too expensive. I said what do you mean> Woodshop teacher sai well we don't have money to buy the kits. I said wait you don't have any wood? He said well the weight is too expensive. I said really, my kids are getting it done for less than 50cents.

He said how. I said pennies.

He then said well we won't be able to afford transportation. I followed with proxy...

So, fact is if they want to race and the kids are involved it will happen. Thanks for helping them. By the way 1980 and older pennies weigh roughly 3.1g. Newer weigh 2.5g. So, if you can get the kids to sort them, placing the older pennies in the cars will give you a bigger motor.
Speedster
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Re: Pennies From Heaven !!

Post by Speedster »

RR, I emailed you some pictures of the car.
I just wanted to let you know where you could get the 3000 grit sandpaper if you wanted to go to a finer grit. I think it would not be worth it.
I would listen to Loud2ns and what he said under the Topic "General Topics". He has experience with Awana axles. What you might want to do is go to Walmart and get a bag of the "Pipe Cleaners", or whatever they're called, and let the kids polish the bores with them. They actually do a decent job but the bottom line is, the kids have a lot of fun doing it. We do this at our workshops to introduce beginners to the activity.
Ratrodsrule1
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Re: Pennies From Heaven !!

Post by Ratrodsrule1 »

Speedster, thanks a bunch, will take the advice on the 2000-2500 from Loud2ns. I haven't received the email pics pf the car as of Feb.19th 11:30 pm CST I'm on a mac that sometimes doesn't play well with others. Would really like to see them. One last thing and I'll be out of your hair.

We are required to use awana blocks from the kit only. The axle grooves on awana blocks are basically 1" 5/8 from axle center line to the end of the block on each end. No long or short end. Is this about right compared to the short end of the block you had in mind ? If so, how near should i drill the holes to the axle groove itself ? I understand they need to be as near the bottom as to not damage the block. Thanks for your patience, you've been a big help.
Speedster
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Re: Pennies From Heaven !!

Post by Speedster »

I'm going to assume you cannot extend the wheelbase. You're not going to be able to do a wedge with that wheelbase. The long end for the Front is fine because it is about the same as the BSA Front. The back is the problem. I transferred the weight of the pennies to 7 - 3/8" x 1/2" tungsten cylinders since they were easier to handle. The cylinders weigh 3.48 ounces or 98.73 grams. All the weight needs to be in front of the rear axle slot. Pennies are too tall and you run out of wood. The tungsten cylinders are smaller and are more dense so the pennies are going to keep making things worse. Since everyone is using the same block you can design your own car. If you have seen a picture of the latest BSA car on the box you need something more like that. You can cut the wood off right behind the rear wheels since that's not helping you if it makes your model look better. You can still use pennies.
Ratrodsrule1
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Re: Pennies From Heaven !!

Post by Ratrodsrule1 »

Speedster, Sorry i didn't think of telling you (memory issues), but yes we can extend the wheel base, In fact the car i just built my granddaughter for our Grand Prix won first place overall for speed using tungsten and set a new track record with a wheel base set 7/8th's from front and rear with a perfect 1" COG. Even with a less than desirable DFW axle, The people I'm helping in no way can afford tungsten....6 kids. The Penny car is their perfect solution to try to be competitive. Given the fact of extending the wheel base is allowed it should be a way to use the wedge and penny combo ? I apologize if i'm pestering you but the penny car is their only option to build a family fleet. Specs would be appreciated. Not to cry on your shoulder but I'm struggling with health issues that is affecting my ability to calculate, problem solve and remember. In fact that's why my Granddaughters car was running with a less than desirable DFW axle. I spent about three hours making the wheel and axle combo silky smooth and perfectly bent only to misplace it to never be seen again. Thanks for your help !!
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