An interesting off-season topic.. the BSA kit's

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whodathunkit
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An interesting off-season topic.. the BSA kit's

Post by whodathunkit » Thu May 20, 2010 7:25 pm

Per request of Fat Sebastian, And to say Thanks for your help to him.

And to Randy Davis of Maximum-Velocity.
Who started this topic on the BSA. Pinewood Derby kit history. July 26, 2007.
http://www.derbytalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2860" target="_blank
That really inspired my interest in collecting and researching it's history.
Thank you for the use of your Pinewood Derby Times News Letter!


UP - DATEING THE BSA KIT TOPIC .
by replacing the lost tiny pic images over to Imgur plus I will be adding a few new images for the viewer's.


The very first Pinewood Derby car kits ..

Well for that one we will need to look inside the Pinewood Derby founder's book.. Pinewood.
Call me lucky if you will.. I purchased the Book from Don Murphy himself back when he sold his very own book .
Some of the ads for his book could be seen in Boy's Life and Scouting magazines in 2001.
See list below:
Boy's Life May of 2001 pg 69.. then in July on pg 55.
Scouting Oct of 2001 pg 60, then in May Jul pg 47, and in Sept pg 59.

What some of these advertising ad's for his book looked like:
Image
Image
Image

Today you can still get the book Pinewood here from:
https://www.pinewoodpro.com/pinewood-derby-history.php
( Thanks to Joe Gargiulo for taking it over and selling it exclusively.)
On Joe's web site.. You will also see some Pinewood Derby History Images where he shares and talks about the Pinewood Derby History as well.

However Viewer's
There are a few things that Don Murphy himself sent out with his book while he was the one selling it.
Things like an order card he sent to give to your friends for his book .. and the photo card of Don Murphy.
You will no longer get these items with the book PINEWOOD today when ordering it from Pinewood pro.
Image
Image
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See that gold sticker on the front cover .. its from the 50th anniversary to the pinewood derby.. and the 70th anniversary is well on it's way.

The Founders autograph and date inside his book :
Image
It was not long after that while right here on derby talk as a first time viewer myself.
Just 5 short month's later that I learned of the founder's passing.
The First Pinewood Derby KIt
In Don Murphy's Book on page 19 the first pinewood derby car plan is seen
Image
There's also an image seen in his book:
Image
The racing kit was composed of one block of wood, two wooden axles, four nails, and four wheels.
The components were put in a brown paper sack and given a number.

I've put together an image in color to look somewhat like that of the first kit along with a vintage Scout handicraft chest.
Image
The axle type were 8d penny finish nails.

So Here We Go From The Sack To The Track to the BSA Pinewood Derby kit's.

In the October 1954 Boys' Life on page 59 is a one page article written by Glenn Wagner,
it briefly describes the first pinewood derby race & Don Murphy's car plan drawing is seen.
At the bottom of the page it reads:
Plans for the track and starting mechanisms may be obtained by sending 15 cents to Boys' Life,
New Brunswick New Jersey... Request catalog 6-205.
Image
(Click on the images to enlarge them if needed.)

Ok I'm going to say a little something here that I find interesting about the Pinewood Derby History..
From this car drawing seen on how to make the car in the Oct 1954 Boy's Life.. from this very time frame until the first kit's were available in 1956.
Pinewood Derby cars could have been constructed using what ever for the materials including the wheels and axles .

In early 1955 Boy Scout supply division buyer... Henry Henning was asked to find a supplier for the pinewood derby kits.
BSA contracted with Art Hasselbach with Beta crafts to make the official kits.
Also in this year BSA started advertising the pinewood derby kits in the June 1955 issue of Boys' Life, the summer issue of the Cub Scout Program Quarterly,
and in the Cub Scout Supply Catalogs for $2.75. In the Fall of 1957, the kit price seen in an ad for the kits changed to $2.95 for the 8 car bulk set's.

In 1956 Art's team shipped their first 80,000 kits to BSA and continued to ship the kits with his two companies Beta Crafts and his parent company Consolidated Models inc.
(Ran by his two son's Stephen & Arthur Jr.)

In 1960 Consolidated Models moved to Cranbury, NJ from it's original
New York city location & by the mid 60's began fabricating & packaging
the Pinewood Derby kits for the Boy Scouts of America exclusively
Here's a link to CMI Plastics:
https://cmiplastics.com/history/


( Please See the edit below for more info on this kit type.)
In 1974 CMI (Grand Prix) introduced new versions of the kits with several changes
Wider wheels offset axel positions still using the wooden axel supports and the large head type axles .
Then in 1977 one without the wooden axel supports using saw notches in the block using the same type wheels but with new pin head axle type

In Dec of 1999..When Art lost his contract with BSA.
The switch over to a new supplier began in 1998/99 when there were kits by two vendors! Beta crafts & Home crafters manufacturing (know as Kahoot)

In the last year for Beta crafts .. The kit could be identified by the black end flap on the box.. and wheels with sunken rims & larger diameter axles.
Home crafters (kahoot) kit by the orange end flap.

Hope you all don't mind if I share with you.. some images of early kit ads and Pinewood derby kits I have in a collection!
I will share the kit rules after words..
I'll start off with the image's of some early pinewood derby kit ads.. these pinewood derby kit ads were seen in the vintage 8 box space derby and rain gutter regatta boat kit contents.
Image
Top Image you will see no price and in the 2nd you'll see a price of $ 2.95
Image

Some 1955 pinewood derby kit ads:
Here's an Image seen in Don's Book Pinewood..
You will also see it on the cover page to the June 1955 Cub Scout Quarterly Programs Guide Wheels Wings and Things.
Image
June 1955 Wheels Wings and Things Showing Don Murphy's car Drawing and the Track Lay Out with a early BSA kit ad.
Image
Image
Image
June 1955 Boy's Life ad:
Image
Aug 1955 Boy's Life ad
Image
Dec 1955 Cub Scout Supply ad:
Image

Here is a image of an unusual kit ad showing large head axles for the first time:
Feb of 1964 Boy's Life.
Image
The next image showing large head axle type was seen in the C.S.Q.P fall of 1965 :
Image

June 1959 Boy's Life show's Art Hasselbach with Cub Scout Pack 197 Bronx New York.
Plus a little Pinewood Derby History is talked about and then..
the 8 car kit contents are talked about even the number decals and Pinewood Derby name plates.
Image
Track plans:
Image
Racing Chart:
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Space derby ads in the kit paper work:
Image
Regatta Boat ads as well:
Image


8 Car box set kit contents.
Image
Image
Kit Type showing letter box name plate decals:
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Decal name plate types:
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Beta crafts 8 car bulk sets and single blister pack kits. 8 car kit Cat # 1699 shown 2nd image above.
image of end view 's of 8 car box 's showing price of $ 2.95 Note however the 1955 kit ads shown price for $ 2.75
Image
Image

The single blister packaging kits came out much later in the summer of 1961-74 catalog #1690 for 49cents
Summer of 1961 C.S.Q.P ad.
Image
Image
Image

(Note: front of kit is marked 1690)
Image
(Note back side view 1699 for the kit plans )
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Here is a 8 car bulk set showing the kit contents once more.
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Kit plan types: More details later on the two types:
Image
Image
Image

The revised specification 8 car bulk set and true date & manufacture unknown.. guessing it to be a late 50's- 60's (Note: the hubs on the wheels and wheel style.)
(EDIT and up dated info about the kit seen below.)
After emailing Stephen Hasselbach Sr of CMI plastics about this cub scout kit I was told that he has never seen this kit.
However he thought it was made by them based of the car plans and the kit type and axles used alone.. And that there were some knock off kits of the official kit as well.
Note: Catalog number is 1699 as well and that no price is marked on the box says Official Cub Scout Kit and BSA supply is seen.
Image
Image
Image
Image
close up view of wheel style:
Image
Image
And a few cars I have using this unique wheel style:
(Note decal name plates look the same as to the early 8 car kit. kit ads seen.
Image
And what the inner hub style looks like seen on the left.. to the1974 cmi wheel inner hub seen to the right:
Image
And the tread width compared to the 1956 wheel seen to the right:
Image

1970's 8 car set sold for $ 3.25
Image
Image
Price marked out on this on.

Decals and kit paper work. Note orange decals!
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Image

(EDIT:)
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In the kit add seen above you'll see a date of 11-74 at the bottom right of the page.
This was the very last pinewood derby kit add seen for the 1956 pinewood derby car kit type.


(I would like to thank Jeff of project pinewood for passing on this info to me.)
He was a Cub Scout back in the 70's and he could recall building & racing a car with the new kit style back in 1976.
Here is the info he passed my way threw an email.

He told me of an add he had got some help with threw BSA directly
And how they put him in touch with the National Scouting Museum to scour threw old catalogs and Magazines.
Where he happen to find reference in the Nov-Dec 1974 Scouting magazine vol 62, number 8, on page 6.
(New Version Of An Old Winner)
Image
NOTE: the catalog numbers seen in the add above!
Single kit's no:1622 75 cents.
Kit of 8 ( box set) no: 1623 $ 4.50

Here is a link to a web site that I found just one day before getting the email from Jeff.
Check out the Dates on the cars seen and the last car seen that's dated as 1975.
https://boles.com/archives/pinewood-derby.html

And then a photo of the bottom side of this car that was shared with me at a local pinewood derby
by its owner that is dated 1977 using the solid block with the saw notches for the axles.

Image
This type can also be seen in the Dec 1977 Boy's Life On page 54-56
https://books.google.com/books?id=0k3vZ ... 56&f=false

Images of the kit plans from the 8 car kits:
Check out cat # 1623 and CM seen lower right But No Date seen ( 1974 ?)
Image
Back Side of the single kit Plans Cat # 1622
Image
In the next image you see CMI 77 in the plans to a 8 box kit Cat # 1623
Image
Now the back side of single CMI 77 kit plan Cat #1623
Image

( Photos of the CMI 8 car box and single kit types and changes.)
Wooden axle support type 1974 and the saw notch kit type 1977.
In this year extra wheel sets were available from the scout dealer catalog #1623-A
Image
Image
Image
Note: The IMPORTANT NOTICE! Paper in this kit.
It reads: On the reverse side of this package under racing specifications.
Point # 1 states:
Width-overall width shall not exceed 3".
This specification should be changed to:
overall width not to exceed 2 3/4".

CMI 1980's kits..( Last for the 8 car kits cat# 1623) Single kit cat# 1622
Okay I'm going to do a little something different here to give you viewers an inside look of this kit.
Image
Decals type:
Image
Car plans:
Image
Image
Track plans:
Image
Racing chart:
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Pinewood Derby, Space Derby, and Regatta boat ads:
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Kit block and cardboard box housing the wheels and axles:
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Side views:
Image
Image

Next image show's continents from the small boxed single kit:
Image
Bulk kit and small boxed kits:
( The small boxed kit was offered after the blister pack kit seen below I want to say. 1984 or 85 for a time frame.)
Image
Image
Extra wheel sets that were offered in plastic packing and axle set's :
Image
The extra axle sets came in a pack of 12 axles:
Image

1988 kits.. Cat# 1622
Image
Image
Image
Beta crafts & CMI ?
Extra wheel and axle sets seen on bottom in small box's on 2nd image:


1994/95?? Beta crafts kit Cat # 1622
Image
Image
Image
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1998?99 Beta crafts last cat# 17006
Kit plans image note 94 in upper right:
Image
Image
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Note car body block has no cockpit cut out now and how this is the last of the 1977 car plans instruction sheet see threw the years .

Kahoot kit.. cat # 17006
Image
(note 97 is seen in the top right of the car plans.)
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extra wheel sets:
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2005 Cub scouts anniversary kit: cat# 17006
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2009 kit.. Cat# 17006
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Colored wheel set 's in this year did not have the coned hub.. that took place in 2010.
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1997 Beta crafts Big Rig Kit.. Cat# 7611 sold for $ 12.95
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Image

2009/2010.. 100th Anniversary Big Rig kit.. Home crafters kahoot. cat # 24342
Image
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2009 kits did not come out with the white sleave trailer for painting in 2010 they were added to the kit.
Image
Plans show it in the bottom diagram of the trailer detail:
Image

More Home crafter's Kahoot kits threw the years:
Image
1st kit 2008 Jeff Gordon Race into the Future kit cat# 17008
2nd kit gift kit. cat# 17008
3rd kit 2009-10 cat# 17006
4th kit 2012 cat#17006
5th kit 2013 cat# 17006
6th kit gift kit cat# 17000
7th kits 2020 cat# 17006
2020 extra wheel sets .. black light or glow in the dark wheels.

SORRY FOR SUCH A LONG POST ON THE KIT PHOTOS THREW THE YEARS.
I'll start on the kit rules later Thanks Guys.

Info on the kits catalog numbers..
1955/56-76.. 8 car bulk set cat no. 1699
From what I know as a collector & having a lot of vintage Cub Scout supply catalogs ect.
The first ad for the individual kit was not seen in them until summer 1961/62. Cat no. 1690 $ .49 cents
And in the ad seen above in 1974 for .59 cents

1977 CMI Grand Prix kits..
Bulk set cat no.1623, individual kit cat no.1622 extra wheel sets cat # 1623-A

1980's kits.. Bulk set cat no.1623, individual kits cat no.1622 Wheel sets cat no. 1622 A

1988 kits.. individual kit cat no.1622, wheel sets were bar code. 17007 7

1994/95?? kits.. bar code cat no. 17006 0 wheel sets 17007 7

1998/99 Beta crafts cat no.17006 0 Kahoot cat no.#17006 wheel sets cat no. 17007 7
In this year two rules were added.. that the car must be built in the current year.. and no loose materials of any kind are permitted on the car.

2009 100th Anniv kit cat no.17006 Big Rig Racing kit # 24342
75th Anniv kit was cat no.#17075
1997 Big Rig Kit cat no. #7611

Pinewood Derby kit plans & rules..
From the photos shown to the right hand side.. I want to point out sometime that took place in the late 50's or early 60's
The Notice seen.. on the plan to the right. (Revised Specification kit)
Image
The NOTICE..Reads, This is the new pinewood derby Specifications as authorized by the
Pinewood derby Rules Committee. The revisions were made to encourage variation in
car designs and increase performance.
Heres a close up of the two plans:
Image
Image

From these plans and rules.. I'll share a few of the racing specifications.

(1) width - overall shall not exceed 2 3/4''
(2) length - overall shall not exceed 7 3/8''
At the top of the photo.. to the left we see that the chassis are not to be lowered below 3/8''
(3) weight shall not exceed 5 oz. no loose materials of any kind are permitted in the car.
no wheel bearings, washers, bushings, or springing! ect.. ect. (as we know it!)
In the building hits.. one can read.. polish nails & lightly lubricate.
remove rough edges from wheels (also)

1974 wooden axle support kit and showing plans:
Image

1974 CMI and 77 saw notched axle kit plans Image back side single blister pack kits:
Image

From here we see the racing specifications.. change up the car!
(1) width-overall 2 3/4"
(2) length - overall not to exceed 7"
rest of the rules the same.
(as seen in the earlier photos of the kit that had an important notice)

1980's kits..
Image

1988 kits..
Image

1994/95?? kits..
Image

1998/99 Beta crafts last..
look at the number seen at the top right
seen on the plan 94????
Image

1998/99 Homecrafters kit..
look at number 97???? seen at the top right of the plan.
This kit came with BSA pinewood derby side walls wheels or with out any logo on the side walls that are very rare.
And smaller diameter size axels.
Image

2009 kit..
Image
This kit has been known to come with the wheels with coned hubs 2.6 gram
And the older wheel style mixed in the kits!


from here on the rules are much in the same..

Happy to share this info with all of you on Derby Talk, And to do a greater good for the kids, or anyone interested in the kit history.
Last edited by whodathunkit on Mon Aug 01, 2022 7:02 pm, edited 132 times in total.


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Laserman
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Re: An interesting off-season topic.. the BSA kit's

Post by Laserman » Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:07 am

That was cool!



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Re: An interesting off-season topic.. the BSA kit's

Post by whodathunkit » Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:01 pm

Thanks Joe!

At the time on the topic..
I wanted to share some PWD kits that I had in a collection
that were the 8 car bulk sets or that were different and not shared.
I still use Randy Davis PWD News letter that he started about the kit history in full.

I started collecting the kits soon after reading his news letter and asking hem if I could use it!

And at the time..
I diden't know that the collection I was trying to put together would be what it is today.
So when I display the kits I have collected on the kit history I only do so for all to enjoy.

Mark.


What type of automobile can be spelled the same forwards & backwards?

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Re: An interesting off-season topic.. the BSA kit's

Post by Noskills » Sat Dec 13, 2014 2:00 pm

Quite the tour de force Mark. I saw my CMI kit. Still have my cars.
Noskills


"Nunchuk skills... bowhunting skills... pinewood derby skills... Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills!"
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Re: An interesting off-season topic.. the BSA kit's

Post by whodathunkit » Sat Dec 13, 2014 3:15 pm

Thanks Seth,

I just wanted to share some photos of some of the past PWD car kits.

So that all who have raced a car.. or just enjoy the event.
Could look back on to recall what kit types were used for making there first PWD cars..
or for the ones who enjoy the event to see some of the early PWD kits types.

Seth,
You know what is really cool and different from all the PWD kits types?

I'll start with Don Murphy's car drawing seen in the Oct 1954 Boy's Life .. Then show some 1955 PWD kit ads.
Image
What do you see being used for axles in this drawing?
(8 penny finishing nails for the axles right!)

What are you see being used for the axles in the 1955 PWD Kit ad photos
Image
Image

What about now.. what are you seeing used for the axles in this 1964 kit ad Photo?
For the BSA & Beta Crafts PWD car kits
Image

So a little bit of Pinewood Derby car kit trivia for you..
BSA, Beta Crafts or CMI and Home crafters.. has never made or sold a Pinewood derby car kit that used the 8 penny finishing nails for axles.
Last edited by whodathunkit on Fri Jul 15, 2022 7:08 pm, edited 3 times in total.


What type of automobile can be spelled the same forwards & backwards?

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Re: An interesting off-season topic.. the BSA kit's

Post by Noskills » Sat Dec 13, 2014 11:39 pm

Mark,
What brought me back was the fact that the CMI kits from the 80 show a wedge design in the instruction with the back cut off. Here the smaller distance from the axel cut to the front is shown as the front of the car. This is the exact way I build my first car. I will have to post a picture. I re beer cutting it by hand on my dining room table. Neither parent was good with tools. But it finished the race!
Seth


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Re: An interesting off-season topic.. the BSA kit's

Post by whodathunkit » Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:56 am

Seth,
Well that's differen't also and I know what your saying about this wedge car design.

I wounder why this same wedge car design was seen on alot of the instruction sheets going on in to the 80's threw 90's as well.

And why on the instruction sheets: That it was also marked in the uper right hand side as CMI 77.
The wooden axles surports were not shown in the car blue print however the saw notched axel slots were seen in the car drawing. ;)
Last edited by whodathunkit on Fri Jul 15, 2022 7:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.


What type of automobile can be spelled the same forwards & backwards?

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An interesting off-season topic.. the BSA kit's

Post by whodathunkit » Mon Feb 29, 2016 12:12 pm

I would like thank Randy with Maximum-Velocity who started this kit history info.

It was also Randy who put me in contact with Jeff of project pinewood threw email.
(sometime back!)

Anyhow Jeff felt like the info on the 1977 CMI kit was wrong for the date when this kit type was first used.
Like Jeff- I felt the same way about it just based off of some of the kits I had in a small collection at the time.
And had show'ed to Jeff on his web site.
It has been a good long while since Jeff and I have talked threw email as well.

So Jeff.
If you see this topic:
Thanks for sharing your findings that you have shared with me about these kits.
As i will be editing the topic.. This is for you!

Whodathunkit.


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What type of automobile can be spelled the same forwards & backwards?

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Re: An interesting off-season topic.. the BSA kit's

Post by whodathunkit » Thu Jul 14, 2022 5:10 pm

I have revisited this topic on the pinewood derby kits threw the years and I have up dated the lost tiny pic images to imgur .
Plus I have added a few more images for viewing.. ( just scroll up to see the older topic.)

Thanks to Speedster & Eagle.. For telling me that I needed to get the kit history info back on DT before it was lost.
And because I know that most kid's in Scouting will never get a chance to see the past Pinewood Derby kits or its History in images if some one dose not share it with them.
For the Adults a chance to finally say to there kids or grandkids in Cub Scouts .. you see that kit that's the one I used when I was a Cub Scout.

And to Andy and Noah of A8htk.. Guy's thank you for your history display board and sign placard's seen on your topic
https://www.derbytalk.com/viewtopic.php ... lay#p82916
I proudly share it as well as it can be seen in the image below along the wall.

I'm the guy seen in the Scouting uniform who enjoys showing and sharing what I have discovered threw collecting of the Pinewood Derby and it's History.
Image
Image

Whoda.
Last edited by whodathunkit on Mon Jul 18, 2022 7:00 pm, edited 6 times in total.


What type of automobile can be spelled the same forwards & backwards?

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Re: An interesting off-season topic.. the BSA kit's

Post by Speedster » Fri Jul 15, 2022 9:27 am

WOW ! Thanks Whoda. What a Great History !



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Re: An interesting off-season topic.. the BSA kit's

Post by whodathunkit » Fri Jul 15, 2022 6:03 pm

Thanks Speedster,
I'm looking into getting that book started you want me to write..
If I can just get past all the editing stages from all the ( 136 edits) I have done above on my typo's on the topic so far. :whew:


Eagle,
Sorry, I know that you wanted me to go in grate detail so you could enjoy your coffee and donuts in the hang tag kit section.
Image
2009 -10 Kahoot Cat# 614417
It's the only one I have in my collection.
Last edited by whodathunkit on Mon Aug 01, 2022 7:06 pm, edited 15 times in total.


What type of automobile can be spelled the same forwards & backwards?

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Re: An interesting off-season topic.. the BSA kit's

Post by Eagle » Sat Jul 16, 2022 3:10 pm

Well that is a beauty, and one I have not seen before.

Really good to see all the pictures back and the updates.



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Re: An interesting off-season topic.. the BSA kit's

Post by whodathunkit » Sat Jul 16, 2022 7:53 pm

Eagle wrote:
Sat Jul 16, 2022 3:10 pm
Well that is a beauty, and one I have not seen before.

Really good to see all the pictures back and the updates.
Thanks Eagle,
I recall you asking me a really good kit history question? ( when did the BSA fenders kits come out for the cars)
Well one of the very first kits that had you make fenders with balsa was the 1997 Big rig kit on the conventional cab truck..
However I know your talking for the cars.
When the big rig kit was new in 97 so were some of the first plastic fender accessories for the cars from BSA.
See Image # 4
Image
Image
Here's some rare pinewood derby add on's that were in clear plastic.
Image
Image
Balsa fender craftsman kit in the kahoot time fame.
Image
Image
Then there was this pinewood fender kit:
Image
Image
It's a good thing I marked the back side winter of 2009 because I was going to say 2009-2010 time frame.


What type of automobile can be spelled the same forwards & backwards?

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Re: An interesting off-season topic.. the BSA kit's

Post by Eagle » Sat Jul 16, 2022 9:24 pm

I did a little research as well. Preparing for a couple special new classes for next years 70th Anniversary of Pinewood Derby at http://www.TheWestCoastGrandPrix.com Plastic fenders are shown on the opposite side of instructions for 97 orange flap kit. I wonder if Pinecar had similar around the same time.



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Re: An interesting off-season topic.. the BSA kit's

Post by whodathunkit » Mon Jul 18, 2022 5:21 pm

Eagle wrote:
Sat Jul 16, 2022 9:24 pm
I wonder if Pinecar had similar around the same time.
Well Eagle,
( Now that's one I don't know... as to what year of manufacture.)
Some of there kits with a car template and the plastic prefabricated fenders .. I can think of.
Screamin' Eagle , Batcar, & I think Starfire & Thunderbolt were maybe some with the fenders also.


What type of automobile can be spelled the same forwards & backwards?

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